Faith and History: Looking Forward, Looking Back

Published on March 18, 2019

https://www.samford.edu/departments/oral-history/projects/samwav/looking-forward-looking-back.mp3

"I think history is a source of just learning not facts and dates but learning about who we are, who we were and who we are, and how who we were helped make us who we are."

Chapters

Introduction: Tradition and Community

Jonathan Lawson and Shae Corey introduce their project, examining the differences and similarities in Matthew Mason's, a protestant pastor, and Elisabeth Meadows's, a Catholic nun, views on faith and history.

Play Segment

Community

Jonathan Lawson and Shae Corey compare Matt Mason's and Elisabeth Meadows's convictions about the importance of community in faith.

Play Segment

The Endurance and Revival of Tradition

Jonathan Lawson and Shae Corey examine Elisabeth Meadows's and Matthew Mason's views on Christian tradition and history.

Play Segment

Common Ground in History

Jonathan Lawson and Shae Corey conclude by discussing the common ground in Matthew Mason and Elisabeth Meadows's views: the importance of Christian history in faith.

Play Segment

Transcript

[HARWELL GOODWIN DAVIS: He stated that he had been appointed to suggest a
president for Howard College.

EUNICE ROGERS: And so there was a lot of industry in Bessemer when I grew up, a
lot of progressiveness. However, it was still a typical, small, Southern town.

OLIVER BARREAU: To be perfectly honest with you, um, I didn't know what Alabama
was until I set foot in Alabama.

ELIZABETH SLOAN RAGLAND: I was not greeted by hecklers. I was greeted by Martha
Ann Cox.]

MICHELLE LITTLE: Welcome back to Sam.wav. We are your hosts, Michelle Little--

CLAIRE DAVIS: --and Claire Davis.

MICHELLE LITTLE: And today we're introducing the next installment in our Faith
and History mini-series.

CLAIRE DAVIS: Last episode, we found similarities in comparing the perspectives
of a religious leader and a historian about the relationship between faith and
history. Today, Jonathan Lawson and Shae Corey talk with a sister of the Sacred
Heart monastery in Cullman and the senior pastor of Birmingham's Church at Brook Hills.

[musical interlude]

JONATHAN LAWSON: You're listening to "The Connections of Faith and History," a
podcast produced by Samford University's Faith and History class and Samford
University's Oral Traditions and Recording Initiatives Program. My name is
Jonathan Lawson.

SHAE COREY: And I'm Shae Corey. So, I recently fulfilled a lifelong dream of
mine. For many years now, I have wanted to meet a nun. They have always just
caught my attention, I've had so many questions, but I never got the opportunity
to ask, until just recently when I got to spend six hours in a monastery. A few
weeks before this, Jonathan and I also got to visit Brook Hills and interview
Pastor Matt Mason.

JONATHAN LAWSON: Yes we did. When thinking about Catholic and Protestant faiths,
one rarely attempts to make a connection between the traditions of the two. But
during our time with Sister Meadows and Pastor Mason, it became clear to us that
there are deep historical and religious connections between both traditions. The
locations of these places of worship are in and of themselves centers of
historical appreciation. The communities represent connections between old and
new generations. Ultimately, despite differences in practices and beliefs, both
Sister Elisabeth and Pastor Mason see deep and lasting connections between the
influence of faith and history.

SHAE COREY: Absolutely, and that is what we will be talking about in this
episode, "Looking Forward, Looking Back."

[musical interlude]

SHAE COREY: In 1902, two sets of eight sisters from two separate Benedictine
monasteries came together to begin a new order in Cullman, Alabama. Today, the
Sacred Heart Monastery is the home of Benedictine nuns who have carried on the
mission of these founding members. Upon entering the monastery, it feels as if
one has stepped through the threshold of time into a living history of the
monastery itself. Light pierces through the stained glass windows and vivifies
the black and white photos of generations of smiling sisters who have lived and
worked at Sacred Heart Monastery. The cavernous chapel, modeled in a neo-Gothic
style with large German stained glass windows and prominent biblical imagery,
signifies an appreciation for biblical history, tradition, and reflection.
Everything is placed perfectly. Everything is quiet. Everything is peaceful.
Even as we were driving away, we just had a different feeling. We really got a
true sense of the space, how it communicates with you as an individual and it
was so different from our experience at Brook Hills.

JONATHAN LAWSON: Absolutely, I think a great way to portray Sister Meadows and
Pastor Mason is to describe the settings in which they live and work. And even
though as a listener you may not be able to fully understand the implications of
the spaces we experienced, it is critical to understanding these individuals and
their beliefs. At first glance, the Church at Brook Hills appears to be worlds
away from the Sacred Heart Monastery. Even the location of the church contrasts
with the more reserved city of Cullman, Alabama. Brook Hills sits against a
backdrop of the hustle and bustle of Birmingham. Where Sacred Heart has these
beautiful stained glass windows and photos from generations of sisters, Brook
Hills has this functionality to it. It's no less impressive and inspiring, but
it focuses on different things. And in that way I think these two settings
mirror the individuals that we interviewed.

SHAE COREY: Exactly. And one of the things that made our perspective on the
issue of faith and history so unique is that we interviewed two professional
Christians: religion is what they do, all the time. Each of our interviewees
represents their institutions, and provides very different perspectives on what
it means to operate as a professional Christian in the secular world. Sister
Meadows is a kind of living history in her own right. She represents the
Catholic tradition, the monastery and the monastic lifestyle every single day.

JONATHAN LAWSON: Yes, and while Sister Meadows represents one aspect of
Christian lifestyle and commitment, Pastor Mason offers a completely different
perspective. Just like Brook Hills feels more modern, because it is, Pastor
Mason's outlook on his role as a faith leader is to appeal to a new generation
of Christians. He undoubtedly has an appreciation for the past and where we have
come from, but his outlook seems to be one that focuses more on the future.

SHAE COREY: Today, Sister Elisabeth Meadows is tasked with leading the
monastery's retreat center. Her calm demeanor, knowledge of the monastery's
history, and desire to have a positive impact on those she encounters signaled
to us that this is a perfect role for her. We felt almost out of place, sitting
in the stiff furniture, as if we had wandered into a different age. Yet, Sister
Meadows spoke of the past as if it had happened yesterday, even though she is
over 100 years removed from the first sisters who began the work of the monastery.

ELISABETH MEADOWS: One thing about living in a monastic community that's a
little different, and working in a ministry in a monastic community that's a
little different than in the secular world, in the secular job if I have a job
for eight years or ten years and I leave that job somebody else comes in and I
never meet them and they never meet me and I'm gone. But I know who the person
that preceded me in the Retreat Center Directors position, and I know the sister
who preceded her and I know the sister that preceded her and there's a living,
there's a living history here and I can go back and say what happened in 1982?"

SHAE COREY: In the entrance hallway, there is a wall filled with photographs;
some are black and white, a few are in color, but they show the generations of
sisters that have lived, and died, in the monastery. Sister Meadows speaks of
the sisters as if she had known them all, even though she hadn't met most. She
described how living in the monastery, a sort of preserved historical center in
the sense that it has been doing the same things since 1902, has impacted her
views on the meaning of the community, particularly within the Christian religion.

ELISABETH MEADOWS: I think I have a stronger sense of the body of Christ, and a
stronger sense of community as opposed to the individual, and a stronger sense
of the priority of community life for Christians.

SHAE COREY: Sister Meadows has devoted her life to the community at Sacred
Heart, and has found deep meaning and peace in the work that she does there. In
our conversations about her lifestyle, it became very clear that decisions in
her community were dictated more by the past than by the future.

JONATHAN LAWSON: And that is so different from Pastor Mason's approach. For
Pastor Mason, the diverse, broad, and large community of Brook Hills provides
beauty with inherent challenges. We were intrigued by his unique perspective on
church community due to his experiences growing up in a small congregation led
by his father, who was also a pastor.

JONATHAN LAWSON: Talk a little bit about the community aspect of Brook Hills.

MATTHEW MASON: Yeah, um. You have to, you have to work for it in a large church.
Um, you know my dad's church--eighty people on a good Sunday. You know, Easter
Sunday. Uh, so yeah small church. You knew everybody. Everybody knew you. So,
um, you know. My dad died while he was preaching when I was 12. So 1988, in the
middle of the sermon, he fell over from a heart attack. And so, talk about
community. Literally everyone, every person in the church drove to the hospital.
And every person in the church was there with us when we heard the news. So in
some ways, community is, is uh, is low-hanging fruit in a place when you walk in
and instantly know everybody and their family and all that. In a larger church,
because this is the first time I've ever been part of a larger church is when I
came on pastoral staff here, every other church I've been a part of has been
significantly smaller, you um, you need small groups. Like we, we didn't even
really need small groups at my dad's church. We have small groups the size of my
dad's church.

JONATHAN LAWSON: It was interesting to listen to Pastor Mason's outlook on
Christian community because he has seen it from both sides. As a young man
growing up in a small church, community meant knowing everyone at the
congregation. That provided comfort and mutual understanding. At Brook Hills,
small groups provide focused communities of support in the larger community of
the church as a whole.

MATTHEW MASON: In a lot of different ways we have been aiming to play up, or, or
build up the prominence and profile of the community piece because that is just
so important.

JONATHAN LAWSON: Part of the beauty of the larger church at Brook Hills is that
one must have a determination to become engaged. It is easy to become lost in
the shuffle of hundreds of worshipers, but those who make a conscious effort to
get involved have a deeper appreciation of what it means to be a servant of
others. The community is broad, it is diverse, and it changes, but the
individuals who make up the much larger congregation support each other and
encourage one another to be strong together.

SHAE COREY: And clearly, community is extremely important to both of our
interviewees. As we talked about before, Sister Meadows felt drawn to the
monastic community because of the depth of tradition and the "tried and true"
nature of Catholicism. A major difference between our two interviewees and their
selected communities was the difference in age, not only of the institutions,
but of the religious traditions themselves. As a Catholic in the twenty-first
century, Sister Meadows is part of a religious tradition that is almost 2000
years old. This historical depth drew her to the faith and gives her life
meaning and a firm trajectory. During our interview, Sister Meadows often
returned to the phrase "tried and true," throughout her interview and seemed
content with leaving her religious convictions at that. She trusts in the
historical validity of the religion, and this grounding in the past gives her a
confidence in the future that is stunning and beautiful.

ELISABETH MEADOWS: I'm appreciative of the anchor that the tradition offers, I
am appreciative of the richness of it, and the liturgy of the hours, which is
our main communal prayer form, the structure of the liturgy of the hours has
stayed pretty much the same for centuries, it's very consistent across the
centuries, little tweaks, little this, little that, but, but the basic
orientation of it, the basic structure is the same. And it's just sort of tried
and true."

SHAE COREY: For Sister Meadows, change within the religious structure of
worship, practice and belief is almost unnecessary. For her, the historicity of
the religious traditions and beliefs gives them an almost holy certification
that cannot be replicated in the modern age.

JONATHAN LAWSON: Definitely, and I think it is important to understand that
Sister Meadows and the nuns at Sacred Heart bring the past into the present
without alteration. The beauty of the tradition is that it's stable. For me, one
of the most interesting aspects of our discussion with Pastor Mason was his
discussion on how new generations have adopted methods and practices of older
generations to mold them to fit the changing landscape of Christianity.

MATTHEW MASON: I feel like I see churches, uh, changing in um, in ways that I'd
want to say are maybe value-neutral, but are accommodating to new tastes for
example of, of younger believers. So I don't know who much of this is being
driven by older people and young people are just catching it, or if young people
are seeing it, asking for it, and then, uh, church leaders, whatever their age,
are saying I think you're onto something. So I don't know how the inf--, which
direction the influence is going in but-- For example, I feel like there are
more churches that are appealing to young people for example that have, are
recovering, or reclaiming high liturgical practices for example. Um, like Ash
Wednesday. So I grew up in New Orleans where if you're not, if you're not a
believer, if you're not like, um, excited about Christ, and all in for the
gospel, um, then everyone grows up Roman Catholic. Everybody grows up going to
Roman Catholic schools for generations. Like your, your dad and your grandfather
both went to Jesuit so your whole family, you're Jesuit family, you're a Brother
Martin Family, you're Holy Cross family, whatever it might be. Um, so Ash
Wednesday for me, growing up, that's what the Catholics did. But now, I see guys
like Mike Cosper and a number of different evangelical leaders practicing things
like this and they're kinda digging around back there in history and saying why
did we let this go? Like, there's Holy Week. It's, it's pretty awesome. Like, it
doesn't just have to be Good Friday, we could do Holy Week and we can really
cash in on the full value of some of those things. So I think--I feel like some
of that is being prompted or at least catalyzed by uh younger voices and younger thinkers.

JONATHAN LAWSON: Pastor Mason's belief in the bonds between traditional and
modern Christian practices was a fascinating historical relation to faith. From
a historical side, examining the past and its connection to the present is a
common aspect of historical study. From a religious standpoint, the adoption of
traditional methods and actions in contemporary religious practices highlights a
sense of appreciation for those who have come before us.

SHAE COREY: Yes, and speaking of appreciation, we've talked a lot about the
differences between Sister Meadows and Pastor Mason, because that's what stuck
out to us the most during our time of reflection. But what we really appreciated
was the similarity between the two. At their core, the connection between faith
and history, for both of them, is one of confidence. And although they may have
different methods, practices, and to some extent beliefs, their confidence in
religious history gives them assurance in their faith. For Sister Meadows,
history provides stability and reveals a string of Christian identity that is
unshakable in the past, present, and future.

ELISABETH MEADOWS: I think that history can teach us a lot about both what was
good and what was not good, I think history can teach us a lot about who we are
today. About where we came from, how we got to be who we are today. And... I
think history is a source of just learning not facts and dates but learning
about who we are, who we were and who we are, and how who we were helped make us
who we are.

JONATHAN LAWSON: In the same way, for Pastor Mason, history provides comfort and
clarity in a world wrought with division and strife.

MATTHEW MASON: There are Christians that I consider to be--they're authors and
they're bloggers--and I consider them to be, just to be blunt, ambulance
chasers. What the do is they find out, you know, where are sabers rattling? You
know, where is there a crisis? And they write a book. Um, because that's where
the action is you know? And, and, and what ends up coming across with each page
that you turn in that book is it's almost like the subtext at the bottom of
every page is, "the sky is falling." Every page, "the sky is falling." And then
they'll write a book about a different issue and it's like wait, I thought the
sky was falling in this category? How? It's been a year and all the sudden
there's this new crisis that has never happened in the history of the church.
And what I said to our congregation right after I said that is there is one
really sweet antidote to that kind of alarmism; church history. Like, we've
been--odds are we've been here before. If we would just read up a little bit,
we'd find out we don't have to, we don't have to be reactionary, we don't have
to run around like chickens with our heads cut off. Like, the church will survive.

JONATHAN LAWSON: Ultimately, Sister Meadows and Pastor Mason relate to one
another in their primary motivations. They both serve others whenever possible
and aim to serve God in every aspect of their lives. In looking back on our
discussions, interviews, and reflections, we've come to the conclusion that
faith and history are deeply connected in religious individuals. Confidence in
faith that stems from a dependence on history, religious and otherwise, is a
distinct aspect of their lives themselves.

SHAE COREY: Yes, and it became clear to us that for Sister Meadows and Pastor
Mason, faith and history are linked, and not only are they linked, they are
inseparable. This was important to us because it provides depth and insight into
the influence of history on faith. I think we went into our discussion looking
for faith's impact on history and determined that history can actually have a
profound influence on faith as well.

[musical interlude]

SHAE COREY: We would like to thank Sister Elisabeth and Pastor Mason for
allowing us to spend time with them, and learn more about their beliefs
regarding faith and history. We also want to thank you for listening to "The
Connections of Faith and History." Once again, I'm Shae Corey--

JONATHAN LAWSON: --and I'm Jonathan Lawson

[musical interlude]

MICHELLE LITTLE: Our theme and background music was produced by Samford student
Kerry Joiner. Today's episode was written and produced by Shae Corey and
Jonathan Lawson, with introductions and credits by Michelle Little and Claire
Davis. This is a Samford Traditions and Oral History Recordings Initiative
production. For more information on our program, you can find our page on the
Samford website or follow us on social media at Facebook and Instagram at
Samford_STORI and on Twitter at SU_STORI.

[typewriter ding]

Audio Information
Attribute	Value
Interviewer	Shae Corey and Jonathan Lawson
Interviewee	Elisabeth Meadows and Matthew Mason
Repository	Samford University Oral History Collection
Accession	SUHist/STORI/012