Dennis Bush

Published on May 9, 2019

"For a very, very long time . . . this area was considered undesirable, uh, unlivable . . . you know weeds and water and, uh, you know we had individuals who had the, uh, the foresight to coming in and developing into a thriving community."

Chapters

Introduction

Jennifer Speights-Binet, Chris Sanders and Jeff Seitz begin to interview Mr. Dennis Bush by asking him about his past and current connections to Rosedale.

Play Segment

Changes in Rosedale

Dennis Bush describes his involvement in Rosedale and what he sees as the biggest changes to the community due to commercialization.

Play Segment

Cut Into Pieces

Dennis Bush recounts the negative impacts of the Red Mountain Expressway on the unified community of Rosedale by dividing it in half.

Play Segment

Let's Meet Up

Dennis Bush explains the significance of the Lee Community Center, Rosedale churches, and Spring Park as important community areas for the neighborhood. In addition, he describes the old Rosedale High School and the fire that destroyed it.

Play Segment

Tie Your Shoes

Dennis Bush recounts his childhood in Rosedale and the landmarks that he remembers.

Play Segment

Pushback

Dennis Bush describes his hopes for the future of Rosedale as a thriving neighborhood community that can continue to exist despite gentrification, encroachment and rezoning.

Play Segment

Transcript

ï"¿ JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Okay, today is October fourteenth, 2017 and Chris
Sanders, Jeff Seitz and Jennifer Speights-Binet are interviewing Mr. Dennis
Bush. Uhm, at the Lee Community Center in Rosedale. Uhm, so we always start with
what is your name? If you don't mind.

DENNIS L. BUSH: I'm Dennis L. Bush.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Mhm. And when and where were you born?

DENNIS L. BUSH: Well I was actually born in Mississippi. Uh, my parents came
here uh when I was about uh maybe a little less than a year old. Uh, my father
had a sister uh that moved here uh with her husband uh for employment and
because of that uh he soon followed with you know his family.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Alright. Okay. What part of Mississippi?

DENNIS L. BUSH: Uh, right below Columbus.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Right below Columbus, alright. And we talked a little
bit about this but you are here every night, almost every night.

DENNIS L. BUSH: Uh, Monday through Thursday generally, yeah.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Right, and you're working with the sports leagues and
just anything that's happening in the community center?

DENNIS L. BUSH: Yeah we were uh you know we had a tutoring program, uh the
neighborhood kinda has changed over the years uhm we've uh had less kids than
we've had in the past uh but we generally had been doing a tutoring program for
uh the kids in the neighborhood and right now we're basically down to about two
kids down for uh the tutoring program.

(Door Opens/Woman in Background: Excuse me. Have a good one.)

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Yeah. Thanks. So, about two kids they come every afternoon?

DENNIS L. BUSH: Uh it's for right now, uh it's, I got one coming tomorrow night.
And, then the other child should come Thursday night so.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Okay, alright. Well you don't have to answer this but
what do you do during the day?

DENNIS L. BUSH: During the day I'm an account manager, uh I work for Enterprise
Holdings, which is probably better known for Enterprise rental car, uhm.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Right.

DENNIS L. BUSH. I, uh manage the insurance division for our group.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Ah, okay and do you work near Homewood?

DENNIS L. BUSH: Out in Vestavia.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Out in Vestavia, okay. Alright well thanks, so I'm
gonna start with the questions and then you guys can follow up, okay? So I think
the best way to start is to ask you to explain your relationship, your
connections to Rosedale.

DENNIS L. BUSH: Uh, as I've told you I came here you know as a small child with
my family and uh my parents still live in Rosedale.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: They do?

DENNIS L. BUSH: Rosedale is basically divided in two sides because of Red
Mountain Expressway. The east and west side of Rosedale, uh and that a lot of
people don't know. Uh and there are a few people who really not familiar with
Rosedale, believe it or not, but uh we came here uh my father worked here and we
were raised here, me and my brother, uh my brother and I and attended Homewood
High School, uh still attend church here, uh, Union Missionary Baptist Church,
which is on the Eastern side which is the oldest church across the mountain, of
any churches.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Ah, the oldest church across the mountain, alright over
the mountain, yeah.

CHRIS SANDERS: What's the name of the church?

DENNIS L. BUSH: Union Missionary Baptist Church.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Alright. So lived here from, from a youngin' your
parents are still here?

DENNIS L. BUSH: Yeah, yeah,

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Alright. And you don't live here anymore but you still
feel really connected?

DENNIS L. BUSH: Uh, yeah I'm over you know obviously in church and I'm in
Rosedale probably six days a week, yeah.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Six days a week. Alright, well I think maybe you know
you mentioned already that Rosedale has changed a lot, if you had to pinpoint
you know a few of the biggest changes, what would you say?

DENNIS L. BUSH: Well, I would say a loss of size.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET Okay.

DENNIS L. BUSH: Uh, again, Rosedale originally was over 110 acres and it's down
to less than thirty now.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Okay.

DENNIS L. BUSH: And the most obviously, the great (unclear) of the community has
been commercially purchased, so uh that's probably, has been the biggest
challenge uh to community from almost, you know well for a long, long time.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Yeah, yeah. I was gonna say do you see a particular
starting point with that do you, do you kind of have a sense of when that, that
crisis begins?

(Microphone Movement, Crackling)

DENNIS L. BUSH: Well, to be honest with you uhm you know I've actually been
involved probably really uh with an understanding of what's going on for maybe
thirty years, uhm and that's one of the reasons why I felt that there was uh
probably much more worthy individuals to be a part of this process but I do appreciate...

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Well, we appreciate your time.

DENNIS L. BUSH: But, but well you know. It's been a long long time you know just
communicating with some of the elders who have passed on you know and some of
the, the stories they've given to me it's been an ongoing fight. For a very,
very long time and this was this area was considered undesirable uh, unlivable
uh you know uh top of the mountain uh a lot of uh uh you know weeds and water
and uh you know we had individuals who had the, uh the foresight to coming in
and developing into a uh thriving community. It was pretty much their support.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET So this site, this particular site where Rosedale is
you're saying was, was actually the bad side, like it was mushy, marshy.

DENNIS L. BUSH: Well, it was not desirable, yeah. You know, the neighborhood
turned something into an uh, what was thought to be undesirable into like, a
thriving place to live.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Oh, nice. So the biggest fight is the
commercialization. Other changes come to mind?

DENNIS L. BUSH: Well, uhm you know one of the things that you also are you know
mindful of is uh your location. You know, your location, I don't think you are
familiar with that being actually twice out of where you regularly live, you
can't afford to live anywhere, uh because of uh you know we get a lot of people
who are you know elderly now and they're on fixed incomes and you know property
taxes you know continue to go up uh and you know they could be faced with not
having that ability to continue their lives here.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Right. They get outpriced. Yeah. What do you see as the
relationship between uhm Rosedale and Homewood? You--status of the relationship,
history of the relationship, whatever you want to speak to.

DENNIS L. BUSH: Well, I think over all it's gotten better over the last few
years uh there was a very, very uh that, that I participated in, a very, very
rocky period where uh it just seemed as if the city government was you know
looking to uh eliminate Rosedale and uh allowing so much uhm property to be
rezoned for commercial uh even property that was labeled uh N.P.D., neighborhood
preservation, and they allowed uh that property to be rezoned.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: How'd that happen? Just individual appeals or?

DENNIS L. BUSH: Well, uh the last property I'm speaking of is right uhm below us
here where now uhm ServisFirst Bank has its home office, they originally were in
Mountainbrook and then relocated to uhm go into a much bigger, cause they've
grown so much, so there was, uh I guess maybe a woman competing, uh, competition
from some of the surrounding areas to attract them into uh their, their city and
uh Homewood obviously won that uh, that opportunity. Again, it does provide you
know more tax space for, for the school so you don't, you know not disappointed
in that aspect again the property was, before it became a part of it, were, it
was labeled N.P.D and the community actually took the city to court uhm and
unfortunately the outcome uh was not in favor of the community because the judge
uh used the same argument that the city had used to keep property N.P.D. in past
years but the judge ruled that a city has the right to use property that the, or
change and rezone property that uh will be a betterment for the community as a whole.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: When was that?

DENNIS L. BUSH: That was in 1998?

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Okay, okay alright great. Thanks. Yes. You guys want to
pick it up?

CHRIS SANDERS: Yeah, you talked about like uhm loss of property uhm or loss of
size being a big factor in the changes in the community. How. How much of that
did the Red Mountain Expressway contribute? In your opinion?

DENNIS L. BUSH: Well, in my opinion, not so much. Again, when it, what the
effects of that is that it basically divided the neighborhood in half.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Right.

DENNIS L. BUSH: Uh, separated one side from the other uh but as far as, the uh a
lot of the commercial growth didn't come as a result of that uh cause again uh
you know it just runs right through the middle of the community, and everything
else is on the perimeters which were the perimeters were out here and I guess,
they just again, shrinking in size.

CHRIS SANDERS: So basically, mostly just like had a community impact? More than
anything else?

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Like it cut it into pieces?

DENNIS L. BUSH: Well, again you know you know just the, the simple fact of
dividing it you know from one side to the other again speaking uh there's people
who uh maybe have visited the community center, uh have done it for a few years,
didn't realize there was another side to Rosedale, so then I think again you
know kind of that that's the worst effect in my opinion is that uh has been done
is the uh dividing of it in half, yeah.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: Well, certainly to, to put in the expressway they had
to appropriate some space, some space, some land in Rosedale.

DENNIS L. BUSH: Well sure, you know anytime you're looking at doing any type of
uh you know something different in there you're going to have to have access to
get back and forth and you know I'm sure that uhm I can't really think of any,
well I take that back, you know growing up there were houses along 18th street.
Uh that sit right at the uh, almost you know like where the verge of the street
uh is now. Uh, you have uh, community pool the uh rug company, uh there were
houses there. Uh, there were houses on the back side of there so I guess when
you think of in terms like that there were, there was property that was lost
because of uh uhm that street coming through and expanding out. Uh, and you knew
that they had to take that property to do the full project so.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: Sure, sure. And in one of our interviews, someone
mentioned a ball field, right something about a baseball field, maybe.

DENNIS L. BUSH: Yeah, a little before my time but uh the ball field, we called
it the ball diamond was...

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: The ball diamond.

DENNIS L. BUSH: was in this direction, it's actually where, it's more closer to
uh beyond the park uh property that I spoke of earlier where the N.P.D
preservation, designation was.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: The uh bank?

DENNIS L. BUSH: Uh, so it was in that direction.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: Okay.

DENNIS L. BUSH: Uhm and it was a, that was used for baseball and uhm I think
football as well.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: Yeah.

CHRIS SANDERS: Uhm, oh I just lost my train of thought. Oh, uh, ah I just lost
it. That's kind of sad.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: It's alright. What about you, Jeff?

JEFF SEITZ: So yeah we kinda been talking about the idea of boundaries and how
the impact of like the expressway came in and splitting Rosedale in half uhm and
even since like your thirty years here do you think that Rosedale has like a
hard set of boundaries or is it more of just this blurred line between Rosedale
and Homewood?

DENNIS L. BUSH: Well, I mean, I guess to say a hard set of boundaries, uh you
know we've been shown time and time again that's not so much true. Uh, and right
now, you know, what is perceived to be Rosedale is where you see uhm families
living. In fact you know downtown Homewood is part of Rosedale. Uhm and, and I
think that sometimes gets lost but that's actually is Rosedale.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: Right. Well that's interesting that you say it is
Rosedale because uh you know I, I confess we look at it and we say it was sort
of appropriated or taken away from Rosedale, but in the strictest sense it still
is Rosedale.

DENNIS L. BUSH: Well, right, cause I'm sure you know that uh there was three
neighborhoods that came together to form Homewood uh so you know those
neighborhoods had their distinct boundaries uh at that time and that was part
of, of Rosedale boundaries.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: Right. So pretty much everything in downtown Homewood
would've been part of Rosedale?

DENNIS L. BUSH: Uh.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: Like city hall, and northward...

DENNIS L. BUSH: The new city hall? Uhm, you know SoHo. You know, uh, there,
there were houses there and you know there was a lot of families that lived you
know uh in that area. Yeah. So uhm yeah.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: So that's interesting sort of thinking about the way
uhm Rosedale might define its boundaries historically versus the way outsiders
looking in might think about it. So you're saying that Rosedale now if people
think they understand Rosedale, often times they just go to the residential.
They go to, just what's still residential. DENNIS L. BUSH: Absolutely, absolutely.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: Okay.

DENNIS L. BUSH: And you know speaking, uh you know if you were speaking to
someone who had been around thirty more years than I had, uh who was, I've been
told that the boundaries even went as far as it was considered the old library
but it's uh, you know right off, you know (unclear) is?

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: Yeah, yeah that's right on the corner.

DENNIS L. BUSH: You know uh where the hill is, where the big star goes up, from
that all the way down was considered Rosedale.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: Really? Okay, alright, wow. Alright. Do you want to
follow up on the boundaries?

JEFF SEITZ: Uhm, we've been too talking about this kind of whole east and west
Rosedale, uhm it seems like now like this area is more like where kind of the
residential homes are have you seen how like the other side of Rosedale has
faded away or is it still a strong community there as well?

DENNIS L. BUSH: It's funny that you say that, because you say this is where the
most of the residents, the residential houses are, but in fact, the other side
is probably twice as large as this side.

JEFF SEITZ: Okay. Hmm.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: Okay.

(Long Pause)

DENNIS L. BUSH: Easily twice as large as this side.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: And you're using this as a dividing line? 18th Street
into Richard Harrington?

DENNIS L. BUSH: Mhm.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: Okay. So this would be west, and this would be east
Rosedale? Okay.

DENNIS L. BUSH: I was trying to find you know, Montgomery St., and that is right
here. Beyond Montgomery St. is actually on the west side of town, the western
side of the community, and uhm here.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: I'm gonna draw if you don't mind. So all the way to
valley? I think.

DENNIS L. BUSH: Central Avenue. Right here. Mhm.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: Mhm. So connecting to Montgomery here? And so here's
18th St., right this is one we all know. Would you actually put it all the way
through or is this where it gets kind of fuzzy, because one becomes commercial
and this is a little?

DENNIS L. BUSH: Well, again that's where the uh you know the initial boundaries
were I mean that was included in the boundaries of Rosedale. Uh, there. But I
think again, just, just from you know, thinking, I think most people are
thinking that Rosedale would not be here.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: Right, right.

DENNIS L. BUSH: Right where this Little Donkey restaurant is but yeah, that's Rosedale.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: Right, right, right. But you're saying that the uh east
side of town actually has more residents than the west side, or the west side--

DENNIS L. BUSH: No, no. The west side...

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: Oh, the opposite. Okay. Just want to be sure. That's right.

DENNIS L. BUSH: Is that what you were saying, you thought that this side was,
the eastern side, has more residents than the west side, not true.

JEFF SEITZ: Yes, yes. Mhm. Okay.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: Mhm, okay. Yeah. That kinda, that makes sense with what
I know about.

CHRIS SANDERS: Well, with that said, would you say, where would you say the
community gathers? Like, would it be where most of the residential areas are or
is it like....

DENNIS L. BUSH: You mean like, a community gathering?

CHRIS SANDERS: Yeah, or like where, where's like, I guess, a meeting place for everybody?

DENNIS L. BUSH: This is the main hub. You have, we have, four, you actually have
three, uh no, four, uh churches that are still part of the community. Uh, that
also serve as a meeting place. Obviously, every Sunday worship service, uhm and
uhm so that would be considered uh a meeting place and the community center and
we also have Spring Park, just a few weeks ago we had a community picnic for the
community and we invited the city council most of them came out the mayor came
out and spent most of the day with us.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Oh good. And this is, no, that's Homewood. Nope, is
this it right here? Spring Park? No?

DENNIS L. BUSH: Central Avenue, uh.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: This is Homewood Park, right here. That should be it,
right? Alright. Okay, so the reason we have that question about center of the
community is because we've read and watched those other interviews and it seems
like it comes up again and again. People talk about the ball, the diamond,
things that they considered the central part or the meeting places that have
gone away. They always mention the churches as still being you know, active and
thriving but they also kind of are sad, seem sad about what was lost when they
were younger.

DENNIS L. BUSH: Oh yeah I'm sure. You know being like, the ball diamond uh was
before my time but uh of course you had the school that was Rosedale school that
was the first to twelfth grade. Uh and that was uhm a big gathering place for
activities uh the ball diamond...

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: And that's where the Muslim community center is now,
that was the school?

DENNIS BUSH: Yeah. Right. Correct.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Cause there is a great story or somebody told a great
story in one of the interviews we read about it being it kept burning down and
it, this one was made with stone so it finally wouldn't burn down.

DENNIS BUSH: Yeah the school initially was on the Western side of town.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Okay.

DENNIS BUSH: And uh there was to my understanding, a, uh I guess you would call
it an offer, to buy the school and a refusal to sell the school and uh shortly
thereafter it was uh burned down.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Wow when do you, about when, what year was that? That's alright.

DENNIS BUSH: And--uhm, the school actually, the school began in 1895? Uh, so it
would be the early part of the 1900's. Uhm, and it closed up in uh 69?

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: 69? I think 69?

DENNIS BUSH: Yeah. Once again, that was cause of uh due to integration.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Integration. Mm.

DENNIS BUSH: Yeah but uh the dates, the year I'm not exactly sure of but it had
to be the early 1900's. Not once but twice I wanna say. You know and uh the
connections that the community put together that uh you know it was uh Klan based.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Mhm. Yeah. And so it got rebuilt with stone? Eventually?

DENNIS BUSH: Well it got rebuilt on that side uh from the first burning and then
uh the second burning uh honestly I think it was placed along the hill with the
stone. The community had some amazing uh individuals who had uh a tremendous
amount of talent...

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Okay.

DENNIS BUSH: Uh you know building these buildings with uh stone and you know
really no prior education of uh you know uh our church is like that and it's
just amazing you know the uh talent folks had to uh you know and be able to
sustain themselves in (unclear) you know they had stores and schools and just amazing.

JEFF SEITZ: When you said town are you saying the community built the, the
schools or?

DENNIS BUSH: Well uh not so much the school I mean they were part of that
building but just some of the houses uh the church, you know, uh our church, I
mean you talk about 130 years old, uh...

JEFF SEITZ: Got it.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Right. Some good local architecture and support.

DENNIS BUSH: Absolutely, you know, I mean they got material skills that you know
just second to none. And, uh you know, that can still be seen by the community.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Right. It held up. That skill is, eh, yeah. Masonry is
a prize of skill nobody knows how to do it anymore. Yeah. Alright so the
churches and the park or and the community center you think are the hubs.

DENNIS BUSH: Right, yes ma'am.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Yeah those are good. Mhm. Yes.

CHRIS SANDERS: Uh, I remember what I was gonna ask earlier. Uhm, I, do you
remember or perhaps know like what the relationship maybe of like the developers
that were building Red Mountain Expressway or if like the community was there
any like communication as far as like, like location of it, like, like uh...

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: So was there any participation by the community in
making any decisions about the expressway?

CHRIS SANDERS: Yeah.

DENNIS BUSH: Honestly, I don't think I can answer that question...

CHRIS SANDERS: Okay.

DENNIS BUSH: Because of uh the timing of it you know obviously it was uh before
my time. But if it's anything like it has been over the years, I think there
probably was very little input if any uh from the community they kind of pretty
much decided what they were gonna do Project A and that's the way they went
after it and once you know you have opposition from the community on the
various projects but uh I would be surprised if there was any input from uh the community.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Right. That was paving the way for all the suburbs over
the mountain.

DENNIS BUSH: True.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Uh, you've been looking, Chris you're looking at
newspaper stories.

CHRIS SANDERS: Oh, yeah.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Having to do with the express way so, you're looking
for any evidence of pushback or, or you know any kind of, now I think there
would be I mean maybe not in Rosedale necessarily but I think about all the
debates about 20 and 59 and 65 merging and I moved here right when that was all
kind of coming to a head it seems like the situation has to be more
participatory now than it did in the 60's...the expressway was sixty...

CHRIS SANDERS: Yeah. Sixty- finished in sixty nine.

DENNIS BUSH: Yeah, you know I think that you know now you probably you know if
nothing else for uh public relations you'd want to at least uh give some input
uh because you know and the reason I think that there was probably was very
little input from the community is cause that division though obviously divided
the neighborhood in half as well as it was always thought of as being not safe uhm...

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Rosedale?

DENNIS BUSH: Oh, no coming down 18th street.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Oh, right right right right.

DENNIS BUSH: And, I can remember as a uh young kid uh when I say young we were
maybe you know twelve, and of course you know we were free to walk throughout
and that's the uh beauty of growing up in a neighborhood like this everybody
knows everybody uh if you uh did something that was out of character uhm
somebody else would get you in check and when you got home you got in check
again. Uh, so...

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Sounds like you might be talking from personal experience.

DENNIS BUSH: Yeah, I'm telling you yeah. I remember you know coming from Shades
Cahaba, went there one year, and uhm there was this older gentleman that I
really didn't know uh...

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: But he knew you.

DENNIS BUSH: He knew me and uh he said something like you know son, you know tie
your shoes up and I'm like, you know tie my shoes up? Like, you're not my dad
you know why, why you telling me to tie my shoes up? And, of course, I'm on my
way and he let it go at that and that Friday night a local store, Mr. Bruno's,
uh, we, most everybody went shopping on Friday, Saturday night, and uh we would
go shopping and uh we came out the doors and you know he greets my father and
they shook hands and chatted and I was like oh my God. He said by the way, I, uh
just the other day, I told your son to tie his shoes up and he told me that I
wasn't his dad. And, course you know he got permission from my dad from that
point on if ever, ever anything like that came out of my mouth to him, he should
take care of it, meaning that you get a switch and you deal with it.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Ooh!

DENNIS BUSH: And uh, and you know my dad would get another switch and deal with
it later on. It was that type of thing you know everybody, you know you were
taught to respect you know your elders and uh even though I didn't know him you
know he had the right uh uh to uh tell me what to do and what not to do.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: So, I'm curious, though did it come up again? Did you
see him again?

DENNIS BUSH: Absolutely not. Well obviously yeah, I mean, in fact, uh as time
went on you know I learned him very well. He was a very good friend of the
family, he was a deacon at my church.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: I bet he loves that story.

DENNIS BUSH: Oh, I guess so, I just didn't know then you know uh that there was
an uh possibility that uh he knew my father.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Where was the Bruno's? Was it on 18th too?

DENNIS BUSH: Bruno's was uh off of Central uhm...

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Off of Central, okay. So there's Central. So, here's
Central coming off of Oxmoor. This is all the way.

DENNIS BUSH: Bruno's would be right in here somewhere.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Alright.

DENNIS BUSH: You know where uhm right now landmark area there's a uh Steak-Out?
Uhm, uh, directly across the street from uh Steak-Out. Uh, that building is
where Bruno's sat. That was your local grocery store.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Steak-Out. Okay.

DENNIS BUSH: We also had a uh A&P which was where on the backside of the Little
Donkey restaurant.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Oh, yeah. Wow, those are really close together for two
grocery stores.

DENNIS BUSH : Yeah and you had uh a plenty of uh service stations and you know
right in the community uh we just had a lot, uh a lot more uh I guess community
based things uh back then. Uhm.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: Yeah, yeah. Nice, thank you.

JEFF SEITZ: So we had talked about a little bit earlier how Rosedale used to
extend all the way kinda down to like the new city hall is, and the SoHo area,
so and that's all pretty new uhm and with that those kind of new developments
you'd think like Homewood's put a lot less pressure on Rosedale now as far as
development and commercialization goes.

DENNIS BUSH: I don't think that pressure will ever stop. Uh, in my opinion.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: Mhm.

DENNIS BUSH : Uh, you know again, uh I keep sitting with uhm you know some of
the guys they're passed on now, but uhm you know just being around them and uhm
listening to them tell the stories of how uh they were basically friends with
some of these people who were looking to redevelop Rosedale and take Rosedale
away again and uh I remember Mr. (unclear) told me that uh one of the guys, that
uh he knew him you know he sat at his kitchen table drinking coffee saying
(unclear), uhm we might not get Rosedale in our lifetime, you know but our
grandkids and maybe their kids will uhm basically eat up Rosedale, take away Rosedale.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: Oh, well one...

DENNIS BUSH: I said and my question to him is that you know what did you respond
to him? When he just, you know, what happened and I said well you know I woulda
been, I would've been not that nice, I would've told him you know to get up, get
out of my kitchen at that point but. But Mr. (unclear) said he just kind of
laughed and said that's not gonna happen.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: Alright. Uhm, the, one of our students, who's not here, Kathryn,
she's actually gonna interview Mrs. Burgess. Uhm, with me.

DENNIS BUSH: Okay, Annie Burgess?

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: Mhm. And her, the, her, her paper is a little more
theoretical, she's talking about the concept of community and how it gets
defined in places and neighborhoods, historic neighborhoods in particular, uhm
and she's also using the Heart of Homewood process. Are you familiar with the
stuff that? Okay. So I was gonna ask you if you knew anything about the Heart of
Homewood plan and if Rosedale, we've all looked at the report, we've looked at
the map we know that Rosedale is kind of this beige area that's left alone and
it says preservation uhm but I did want to ask you about that and what you think
about the process and how's it going and is it a hopeful thing for Rosedale or
is it just more the same?

DENNIS BUSH: Well I mean it, uh, Rosedale participated in, in big numbers in
that process, and uh probably...

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: Yeah, Doug told me.

DENNIS BUSH: From an overall standpoint, meaning, meaning the other communities
that make up the city of Homewood, probably had more representation from
Rosedale. The uh, the the the Heart of Homewood plan, if you go in and look on
the internet, I mean that's been a lot of research. Uh, from the demographics of
the neighborhoods and the breakdown in income and everything, I tend to believe
that that's all done for at least uh I think that there's in my opinion I think
there's bigger things they're looking at uh you know maybe not in this initial
phase of it but I, I think that they're doing a lot of research to see uh
basically where to go from there. That's my opinion.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: Uh, so. And also, potentially pitching Homewood to
potential investors, perhaps yes.

DENNIS BUSH: Oh, absolutely. Yeah absolutely.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: And it really is confined just to that sort of
commercial corridor, right, it doesn't really go beyond... right now.

DENNIS BUSH: Right now, right. That's the thinking that some of us have, you
know, that right now that's the focus is the uh that particular area where
you're looking with the hotel uhm but uh with the amount of research and the
things they research, I just tended not to believe that that's the end of it.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: I think that's probably wise. Uhm, what do you think
uhm in terms of that kind of pushback, I mean you, you very obviously are
committed to the neighborhood, involved in the neighborhood, invest six days a
week in this neighborhood, uhm what do you think, what do you think Rosedale's
doing or should do to really push back? I mean what do you think you're doing
well already to push back, and what do you want what are your hopes?

DENNIS BUSH: Well uh the overall hope and goal is obviously to uh keep Rosedale intact.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: Something intact.

DENNIS BUSH: And uh being a neighborhood that uh is nurturing and uh continue to
uh you know develop within the boundaries of the community uh you know what I
mean by that is uh new homes and uh continuing to rehab the homes in the
neighborhood uh you know make it a place that if you choose to live in Rosedale
that you can, that's the biggest goal. That you, if you choose to live in
Rosedale, you can.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: Mhm. Right, if you choose to live there, if you choose
to stay there, too, yeah.

DENNIS BUSH: Right. Because, uh you know, again that has always been a, uh a
fight. Uh, of maintaining Rosedale. I think that you know it probably uh will
always be. You know I think that we kind of have gone in cycles where its been
this tremendous amount of pressure uh you know the questioning for rezoning and
development all over the place uh you know and now it's a little bit quieter and
uh I do think that there's members of city government that uh m may be a little
more friendly and uhm and begin to make some connections with Rosedale where uh
I think that in, especially in times where there's been so big of a push I think
that uh members of the uh government at that point there was really no
connection, no concern and their thing is that you know uh it's pretty much
about the dollars and not about the citizens.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: And Rosedale has one city council member?

DENNIS BUSH: There's two uh reps of the areas that Rosedale's a part of.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: Two, okay. That make Rosedale up, okay. Alright. What
other questions do you guys have? I didn't ask about Ahmad's. So the fourth
student, who is also interviewing Mrs. Burgess with me, he is looking at the
school and he's looking at the overlay of Birmingham Civil Rights with uhm the
end of the Rosedale school, integration, more broadly in Birmingham and he's
using some of the old interviews that we have where people have talked about
that uhm and I guess I would just ask you uhm I think the question that Ahmad's
interested in is what was gained with integration, what was lost, in regards to
the school. I think that's what he's trying to get a handle on. And he again,
like Chris is using newspapers and using reports from the time to see if he can
pick up on some of the sentiments, its hard though because there really is no
good record of what people were thinking and feeling and I know this is before
your time, but.

DENNIS BUSH: I know I just think that obviously you have that uh, in terms of
connection, you know when you uh and again obviously, a lot of the things that
Rosedale was developed was because of they had no choice if you want to be
educated, then, if you want to have any learning, you had to develop a way of
being able to teach within and that in itself is a strong, strong, connection.
Now and again, you lose that with integration but again on the, on the other
hand of it, you know, you are now privileged to the things that everybody else
has. You know? Uh, where you might have had to uh you know not have the
opportunity to do this because of funds, now those funds are made available to
you to be able to you know to have a certain class or do a certain thing itself
so you know obviously you lose something you know and you gain in one aspect as
well, so.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: You all have any other questions? JEFF SEITZ: So,
you've seen like kind of the development of the Avondale downtown and how that
kind of commercialization like transformed a really kind of run down place, to
your knowledge, are the city developers trying to make Rosedale something more
like that or is it more of just like isolated hotel, fast food restaurant, bank
kind of like all over the place?

DENNIS BUSH: Uh well you know, the the push over a majority of the years that uh
that I've been a part of it yeah has been for commercial.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Mhm.

DENNIS BUSH: Uh, but uhm I also think that there is and again I spoke earlier
about implications I think there is a effort in that direction as well. Uh, so I
think that we have pretty much dealt with for the most part, the commercial
encroachment, but uh I think we're starting to see that and I'm sorry I
shouldn't say starting to see that's, that's been a discussion that's long been
had uh but I think its we've seen evidence of that more.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Mhm. The gentrification? The residential gentrification
as well as the commercial. So let me ask you this--uhm do you think when
Homewood booms, Rosedale feels more pressure on its space and its its its uh
property for development or do you think when Homewood is uh uh suffering, not
suffering, Homewood doesn't, hasn't suffered much but when its there's a
decline, like a post 2008 bust, what do you think the implications are for Home-
for Rosedale?

DENNIS BUSH: Right. Well I just think that, you know, you know at, all points
where uh Rosedale is, again, a part of Homewood...

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Yup.

DENNIS BUSH: And there's no sea. Homewood as a city, is landlocked. You know
there's really nowhere, there's not many places, they can't go too much, they
can't go out. So, that I think intensifies the push to uh develop within and how
do you develop within, you take from something to replace it with something else.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Yeah that's right. Mm, that's good. Mhm, mhm. Yup,
that's true. Are you hopeful though?

DENNIS BUSH: I am. Uh, I again, I spoke earlier of, the--there seems to be more
of a connection being developed with uhm again, city government.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: The government.

DENNIS BUSH : And I think that you know obviously that is that's a deciding uh
factor, they decide up or down, yes or no, stay the same, change, you know,
that's what, pretty much a lot of it. And, I think that there has been a little
more connection than there has been in the past.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Yup. You guys have some other questions? No?

JEFF SEITZ: Uhm, I guess I would just ask uhm so I'm doing this kind of mapping
project, and do you feel like, or what ways do you think mapping could be able
to help the community of Rosedale and your city council in terms of like
fighting against development or do you even think that would make a difference?

DENNIS BUSH: Well, absolutely, I think it makes a difference. Because, we've
done that as well. Again, the, the the the the thinking of the community is not
look, we're not against development, we just want to be developed in areas that
are already zoned for development. Not to take away from the residents in the
community, to make that development take place. There is uh you know, boundaries
within uh, the city of Homewood that we feel that they concentrate on doing just
that--then they could grow with new business uh just redeveloping and in the
areas that's already zoned.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: So for Rosedale, what are those areas uh that you're
talking about that they're already zoned for business? It's the Sherwin
Williams, it's that that stretch there?

DENNIS BUSH: Absolutely, you know and you know, you have a stretch of, of 18th
Street you know you have businesses on there, you know its its we gonna put a
small business? Put it there, don't look at putting it in the heart of the
community or taking uh coming into the community and well it's just on the edge
of it, you know again that's how it gets eaten up. You got that edge and the
next step and the next step and the next step and then you know all of a sudden
you got several blocks that you got taken away.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Right, and I guess that's the story Rosedale knows very well.

DENNIS BUSH: Absolutely, too familiar with.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Too familiar, right. Right, go ahead.

CHRIS SANDERS: Well, I'll ask. If I'm you know looking at you know the effect of
Red Mountain Expressway on Rosedale, do you feel that like if I'm gonna focus on
an aspect of it like like like socially or economically, do you think like that
I should focus more on the communal aspect of it or like keep researching on how
it affected Rosedale economically? I don't know if that's gonna make any sense.

DENNIS BUSH: No, I think that that would be a good focus. To see or try to
develop how that aspect of community uh you know if that could be developed and
that model could be looked at and say okay this is another thing that has taken
place, you know. And you have this particular step that shows, in this case, how
it has uh uh a negative effect on the community.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: So the social impact though seems really clear to me of
the Expressway, you know, dividing the community all that stuff, but the
economic impact, what, does anything come to your mind when you think about the
economic impact of the Expressway? My hunch is the environmental piece wasn't
considered, in 1962, 3, 4, you know that just wasn't, that just, I don't even
think that those laws and legislation existed but what about economic? Does
Rosedale benefit from the Expressway directly at all?

DENNIS BUSH: No.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Right, cause there's no good exit, there's no, well
there is but, it's all really about kind of cutting through.

DENNIS BUSH: Absolutely, easier way to, easier way in, easier way out.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Yeah. Hmm.

DENNIS BUSH: Easier way in, easier way out. Going through.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Yeah that's good. Alright, do y'all have any final
questions for Mr. Bush, we've taken a lot of his time, I know. And hopefully
we're still recording. Wouldn't that be horrible? You know that happens all the
time. I'm sure. No other questions? No? Do you have any advice for us when we
talk to Ms. Burgess?

DENNIS BUSH : Uh, I think that uh I've been pleased with the way y'all have come
and visited me so uh I guess that uh just be...

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Oh that's nice.

DENNIS BUSH: business as usual.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Can you think of anything specific that we should ask
Ms. Burgess? I know one of the things that we've been told is just the story
that her house is where it is and it kinda continues to be where it is despite everything.

DENNIS BUSH: Yeah, that's a uh, testament of her uh her will, if you will.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Good.

DENNIS BUSH: Uhm, you know, being the only house uh and there were houses on
both sides, of her, all the way up you know and to be the only house that's
still remaining again that's a strong testament to uh her will and her family's
will and she even today uh I spoke to her a few weeks back about it, there's
still pressure on her.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: Oh, is that right? It's not that she does get some offers?

DENNIS BUSH: Making crazy offers and like one of the offers she told me about I
was like really.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: How do you say no to that, huh? Sorry...

DENNIS BUSH : Well no, I mean I think that it's easy to say no to because again
I think there again the overall thinking, as it always has been, you know uh
which again, personal business they'll try to get is as cheap as possible, and
sell it for a regular mortgage. And uh I say no to that. Not when it comes to
your home.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: You ever think about moving back to Rosedale?

DENNIS BUSH: Well, one of the things that we did before we moved is that uh we
had our eye on a uh lot it was a, a double lot and uhm it went up for sale and I
was made aware of it and immediately started calling em and the funny thing uh
after finally getting in touch with someone and inquiring about it, the for sale
sign was taken down. And uh long story short we, we didn't get the property.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS-BINET: You didn't get the property, sorry . Alright. Anything
else? Alright, thank you so much for your time.

JEFF SEITZ: Thank you again, seriously.

CHRIS SANDERS: Thank you.

DENNIS BUSH: Thank you.

JENNIFER SPEIGHTS BINET: I know.

Audio Information
Attribute	Value
Interviewer	Chris Sanders
Interviewee	Dennis Bush
Repository	Samford University Oral History Collection
Accession	SUHist/Rosedale/006