Christine Cochran

Published on December 30, 2018

"Yes, I think that we are closer together because we shared our hardships together. And when it eased off, we’re still sharing together. If a house gets burned up, we all just put together and soon we have them started again. So, we use a lot of togetherness because in the times of hardship and tribulation, we had to be together—the only way of surviving."

Chapters

A History of Docena (prepared by Christine Cochran)

Christine Cochran reads her written summary of Docena’s history, as well as its condition at the time of recording in 1979.

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Building in Docena

Christine Cochran describes some of the buildings in Docena, including the church, the houses, and the school. She also explains the clacker system in Docena.

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Social Life in Docena

Christine Cochran discusses race relations and describes some of the social activities that the Docena community participated in.

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The Mines and Unionization

Christine Cochran describes work in the mines before the union and the process of unionization.

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TCI Services in Docena

Christine Cochran explains details of some of the services TCI provided, including the schools and medical care. She also recalls what happened after the mines closed and TCI left Docena.

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Welfare and TCI Discipline

Christine Cochran discusses welfare, home life, and the disciplinary measures that the company employed. She also describes the shooting of Mr. Helton, the company sheriff.

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School, the Commissary, and the Mail System

Christine Cochran explains leadership at the Docena school, the items sold at the commissary, and the system through which mail arrived at Docena.

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Church Life

Christine Cochran describes the old church community and details the activities at the old community center.

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Youth Activities and School

Christine Cochran recalls some of the methods of entertainment for the young people in Docena, and gives her thoughts on schools of the past compared with schools of the present.

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Church Discipline

Christine Cochran explains the disciplinary measures taken by the church, and the role of women in the church in the past and present.

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Final Thoughts

Christine Cochran relates more details about Docena, including Christmas traditions, upkeep of the company houses, and the community’s service in wars.

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Transcript

JERRY TAPLEY: March the 13th 1979. Oral history interview with Mrs.
Christine Cochran of 211 Sixth Street, Docena. Jerry Tapley. Okay.

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: (prepared and read by interviewee) Docena is an unusual
village because we are a part of suburban Birmingham in the telephone directory,
yet we are not included in the city-wide transportation route. There are much
longer routes included, but we are still left out. It is a very inconvenient
place to live and hold a job unless you sacrifice to always keep a car of your
own. I have been told that between 1890 and 1905 Docena was a prison camp. Mr.
Sam Hanberry, lived next door, was the only one I knew who said that he was one
of the prisoners. He was changed over to freedom and given a job back with the
TCI Company for two dollars a day. The work name was changed from prison labor
to free labor. He worked close to fifty years free labor. He is now deceased.
Some of the prisoners were transferred to Flat Top and others to close prison
camps further over in the valley. One other old prison camp I remember was
Margaret Mines. They were soon changed to free labor, too. Working conditions
were very poor in those days--someone got hurt or killed every week. Mules
were used to pull the loads of coal in those days. The animals were brought
outside to graze in the sunshine to prevent them from going blind, I was told
that Mr. Henry Cole, who is deceased, was the prison guard. He has a son and
grandson down the street a couple of blocks who still live in Docena. So, on
down the way for the village progress, people came from the places far away and
found that the mining was a nice way to make money. Most had lived so meager
until it was to the early settlers of Docena as the gold rush was to California.
There is an old cemetery down around the old mine site, where the poor, old,
lonely prisoners were buried as they died out. Some of the old barracks that
housed the prisoners were fixed over for free labor use. Mine bath houses,
blacksmith shops, lamp house, and different little offices, any other thing that
could help the new condition progress. I have heard Mrs. Bonhill say that
sometimes a prisoner would escape, and they would call, so everybody would rush
inside and close the doors they were so afraid. Nowadays, the people are not so
frightened; they just help you on down the road if you are not of a more violent
spree. So, you had more difficulty getting away then than you do now. The
building that the prison authorities used for cooking and eating was called a
mess hall. Later years it was moved to 2nd Street South, Docena and is now a
very pretty place to live. A family of four lives there and have fixed it up
very nice. Booker T. Washington Business College was once up on the hill a
couple of blocks. But, the TCI Company had it moved away in need of more living
space for the tents to house the workers. As odd as you might think, TCI Company
made it comfortable for those who worked for the company. There was a nice
little church which was once an old theatre, but it was fixed up and we enjoyed
it spiritually for many years. We were furnished schools and playgrounds by the
company at a very early start of the free labor period. The teachers were paid
by the company. We had public bathhouses furnished by the company. Everyday each
one took turns bathing in the shower stalls until the whole school had a bath.
Sometimes I feel like that would be a good preventative measure now, to bathe
the middle of the day. We had very good playgrounds. The company gave baseballs
to and uniforms to the ball players. Of course, they had a way of cutting the
miners for those things and called it stoppage. Those who did not have school
children paid to help make the success. Single men paid the same as married. Had
it not been for that kind of management we still would have young people who
could not read and write in Docena. The doctor and hospital service was great.
Whether you got sick or not you continued to pay a certain amount of
doctor's bill each pay check. When you got sick, the bill was already taken
care of, which kept off some of the hardship of long term illness. Best of all
was the general store that we call the commissary. At this particular store you
could get anything you wanted such as food, clothing, and furnishings for the
house. The only problem was if you got all that you needed there was no pay
check, just an itemized statement of what you made and what you spent. And a
statement of the rest you owed the company. Actually, if the most of us paid all
that we owe now more would be penniless. We use charge accounts that are usually
much greater than out pay check and so on. The company made sure that we used
their system by advancing to us clacker or a coupon system called scrip. The
clacker was copper marked coins made by the company you worked for. Each mining
company had their own copper coins. So, we were happy with that and the company
was happy to get back all of the money that they paid the miners for digging the
rich coal. And old lady, Mrs. Bonhill, says the first houses were built for a
few while other continued to live in tents in 1915. Thus, the water system was
changed, and we had good tap water. The sanitation was improved from haul away
system to a hole in the ground system. Well, we really became more independent
when the organized labor came about. Pay was improved and so was the management
situation. It is always better if there is someone to speak for you. You are not
afraid of being jilted. If you disliked a thing in the old days, you dare not
speak out, for fear of getting your job taken and carried to the gate and told
never to come back. For the welfare of each family everyone just stayed inside
the gate and worked. The whole village was fenced in at one time. What
difference did it make? All were happy, and our needs were met as long as we
were honest and workable. There was much suffering at the beginning of organized
labor, but eventually all went well for the miners. To prove that real success
can come even to the poorest of mankind, along the way came John W. Galbreath
Company to purchase and resell the houses. In the early fifties, each tenant was
given first choice to buy your house. Whether you had any money or not, if you
could meet the little notes you could buy. Most of the families bought. Few
moved on to other places and come to work in cars. The loan was small, and the
time was long. So, most who tried paid out. Yet, there's always and always
will be a few who start on the journey through life and decide to change their
course. Actually, that is the general philosophy of humanity. Some keep the
faith to win, and others make different decisions. The mines had been
modernized and updated to the extent that machinery was doing the job instead of
the shovel and pick of old. The old, worked-down men began to seek ways to get
pay for losing their health underground. Silicosis paid some a large amount of
money for health hazards. Thus, the company began to lose some of the fat income
they had reaped over the years settling claims for health. They closed the store
first. But, we were already in shape to get provisions other places. Soon the
doctors were gone from Docena. Well, we went on to the union doctors, which is
the greatest gift we can pay for with a small sum. We have fine doctors and
great hospital care through the U.M.W. Fund. Most every home had or does have a
retired ownership background out here, Most of the young inherited from their
retired parents. But on February 8, 1961, the mines ceased to operate further.
Not more than five or six of my people were fortunate to get other mining work.
So, they retired and those who were not 65 could get disability from Black Lung
and Social Security benefit. So, everyone enlarged their little house who could
afford it and kept fixing up until it no longer feels like mining camp, but a
suburban of Jefferson County named Docena. We have two modern churches, we have
a community center in an old school building, but we are working for the new one
right now. We have a civic league as a progressive community organization and a
small voluntary fire department. We only have one fire wagon, but it has been
very good help. We are also fortunate enough in the summer to get free lunches
through the federal program for our children. We use the community center for
that. All children are transferred from this village to other schools by the
county transportation bus system. They arrive home around 3:15pm. We do have a
new school schedule beginning March 19, 1979, which moves the school day one
hour shorter. We hope it is not for long. We have a couple of people with jitney
service in and out of the village to Ensley. We hope someday the city will
include Docena in their bus route. Many of us have cars so we really don't
miss it too much. We ride each other in and out and we go to do our little
outside trade. But, we have a grocery store made from the old commissary and the
people who operate it keep a full line of food and general needs, (sound cuts
out) buy from them. It helps us keep a close place to trade and it gives them
business, so they can live. We also have a little post office in the store. So,
after all, Docena is a nice place to live, and thank you for this opportunity.

JERRY TAPLEY: I was going to ask you-- I can sense you've got a deep
pride for your--for the place you live here. And I think that's great.
You think because the people have been here for a long time and worked together
and really had to kind of help each other out that caused this sense of pride
like, in you and other people here?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Yes, I think that we are closer together because we shared
our hardships together. And when it eased off, we're still sharing
together. If a house gets burned up, we all just put together and soon we have
them started again. So, we use a lot of togetherness because in the times of
hardship and tribulation, we had to be together--the only way of surviving.

JERRY TAPLEY: I think that's great. Was--I think all in to this, was the
church life really strong all along here and--?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Yes, that's the only pleasure we get is the church,
since we have no school now and we have that little community center, but it is
mostly for the young. So, all that the adult life can get out of here is what
you can do at church. So, in our church we have a little educational building we
call it, kitchen and so forth, you know, and we enjoy that, and that's our
general way of life, we have little luncheons and so forth in the church, you
know, and we eat together, so we enjoy it, that's all.

JERRY TAPLEY: I noticed when I came up a lot of the houses, you know, had the
chimney in the middle with the roof coming up. I noticed this one and some
others were different. Were they built at the same time or at different times or what?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: To begin with, they built a group of houses like 1915 and on
in between, so then maybe eight or ten years later they built some more houses.

JERRY TAPLEY: I've noticed, have y'all built on to this house since then?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Yes.

JERRY TAPLEY: I noticed it's a good bit larger than a lot of the houses here.

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Yes.

JERRY TAPLEY: You said something a few minutes ago about clacker--tell me a
little bit about that.

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Well, the company made dollars, halves, quarters, dimes and
nickels, and a one cent piece, just like change that the federal governments
make, but it was made out of copper. They had certain writing on them like TCI
Company or so forth, you know. So, when you worked enough to have time enough in
the office that you could get some of that money you could go down there and ask
them for it ahead of payday and they would give you some back. And we would just
keep pockets of that stuff to spend. We hardly ever got any real money in those days.

JERRY TAPLEY: Well, it worked the same--it worked the same. You talked a
little bit about the school they're tearing down--one of the old schools
they're tearing down up here across from the store?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Yes, that was one of the old schools. In the olden days that
school was for the whites and we had a school where our church is for the
blacks. We, at the period of integration we all went to school up there. So
then, they condemned that, and then we bused on out to a better place. Our
children did go to Crumley Chapel and the junior high go to Bonneville; senior
high go to Minor High.

JERRY TAPLEY: From what little study I've got to do on the area here, I
understood that at the times the mines were really going, about two-thirds of
the population was black and about one-third white. Was TCI real--how can I
put this--were they equally good to the blacks as they were to the whites?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: They were not partial at all.

JERRY TAPLEY: That's great.

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: They came from out of the state and they were making the
money and they fenced us all in and we all went together then. We separated
later as this came about--the integration and stuff, but before that, my
house was always full of them and all down in there. We just visited and ha-ha-ed.

JERRY TAPLEY: Well, that's great. What was--during the time when the
mines were open and everything, what was the social life like, you know,
around--like what were some of the things you did as a community, maybe
activities together or...?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: The company furnished social workers to come in and teach us
how to make things like baskets, flowers, we had a certain little house place to
do that, you know, we'd go there, and they would teach us little things to
do and how to sew and cook. The company would furnish somebody to teach us
home-ec and seamstry--we had some good seamstresses around that. Could make
suits for the boys and so-forth, and we had a nice big ball park and we'd
go sell sandw--make little barbeque place out there and sell sandwiches and
eat and frolic all around and play ball and other camps would come in here and
play us and we'd go play them and so-forth.

JERRY TAPLEY: That's great! We were talking in class the other day and we
were asking several questions and all and it was very interesting, I, before I
asked you that question a few minutes ago about whether TCI was partial to
either group I kinda felt like they weren't, that they were real--was
there in the community--did the whites and the blacks ever have a sports game
together or did they ever do anything of that sort?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: We... We had ours separate at that time. But now they play
ball there together. They donâ€™t have a very big place up there by the
school so this hill over there you see and we get a little help on the
government around on that. So, they come in sometimes and play up there, lots of
the boys do.

JERRY TAPLEY: What were the hours like for the miners when they were working?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: It was dark when you went to the mines to work and it was
dark when you came out. The only time you saw the sun was the day they let you
off. If something needed to be worked overtime or something, you just stayed on
and worked and worked until they got through with you.

JERRY TAPLEY: What was--tell me a little bit about if you know anything about
what it was like maybe before the union came in.

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Well, now that was before the union when they worked terrible
like that, but, after the union came it got straightened out--the work was
much better. And they worked, you know like first ten hours, then they dropped
down to eight hours, so now it's down to seven. We don't have a mine
here, but they have one at Concord that still belongs to the TCI Company and
nobody about here works but a few people.

JERRY TAPLEY: You know, when they unionized and everything here, was it a joint
effort of the black and white community to unionize or did they have, were there
people from both communities kinda working separately at the time to unionize or...

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: No, they mostly worked together, Still, there's always
gonna be a few who would rather depend on the company, but there was so many
more blacks than there were whites and the people who came in to organize were
led by whites, so that encouraged the whites to take over, too. So, with mostly
blacks to do the ruling power at that time, why, they just soon got fighting and
fussing and straightened it out. So the company saw they couldn't work
without the union, they just gave over. Then it got so nice, white people moved
in from other places and made it bigger. But we used to be all down in there and
so we... By the time they were getting ready to sell the houses, well, they
spared it up, you know, to give the white people a little more room.

JERRY TAPLEY: Okay. I'm gonna get back to schools for the minute here. The
teachers that they brought in for the schools--where did they bring them in
from? Were they mostly women that taught?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Once in a while there--I remember one principal was Mr.
Black. Now, he was a white teacher and John S. Jackson was a man up here and
that's about the only two I remember in the olden days.

JERRY TAPLEY: Did the company have a doctor that lived in the community--I
know you mentioned the doctor and everything, there, so the way that--the way
that it was set up then you just paid a little at a time, a little every week
and when it came up you didn't have to...

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: That's right--you'd just go to the
doctor--just go to the doctor--cause they take it out you know, and
everybody in their family were taken care of.

JERRY TAPLEY: I think that's good. What was life like for a woman--the
wife of a coal miner.

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Well, actually, I think that that life made the housewife too
lazy. She just spend everything the poor old man could work hard and get and she
sat there and took care of the family. Like the very, very old age. So, I think
that it was--it was not very progressive for the ladies because there came a
time at the close of the mines where we didn't have enough to get by off
of. And ladies who were kind up in age didn't know how to get out and find
anything to do. It caused much suffering and much beginning over in life--old
ladies getting out trying to find something to do and "well, what have you
been doing?" They didn't know how to take care of--just maid work,
like over the mountain there had to be somebody to hire them to teach them how
to do. And these days people you know, don't care too much about teaching
you nothing, they want you to do it while they go ahead on. So, it was hard for
lots of them, but it wasn't hard for me because I had been working and so I
just worked on. But, so many called it very, very hard trying to struggle till
their husband could get on a little check, you know. To see if they were gonna
pay him for his lung hazards and so-forth. You know, they had a great waiting
period and a kind of a drop back at the end of the mine and not much
transportation you know, from out here to get to where you could do something.
If you could wash dishes, you couldn't get anywhere where they were able to
pay you. The white people were in the same shape we were in out here--they
didn't have anything. So, it was a little bit hard when the mines closed.
But, in about two years it picked up because everybody started getting little
checks and then when you're not used to too much you know how to make that
little stretch and stretch like Stretch Armstrong (laughs). We do. We know how
to make out with a little.

JERRY TAPLEY: TCI owned the homes here, right? When the mines were in operation?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: But, the company came and bought it all and resold it. Maybe
that might have been the way they had of selling them and saying they
didn't have nothing to do with it to get out of taking care of us and
so-on, like it had been. But, it turned out real nice.

JERRY TAPLEY: That's good. When TCI owned the house though and say a miner
retired or was disabled--he could still live here in the home or that he had here?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Well, when you gave out you were kind of to the pity. But,
usually when they gave out, well, their sons and daughters would have grown up
by then, and they would help them. But, if you were just, didn't have no
other way and didn't soon die, well, you had to leave and go somewhere and
try to get on welfare. At that time, welfare didn't reach us. They
didn't know we were out here. So, but now the welfare will come and assist
you, but at that time you were just--somebody would just have to carry you in
and move you over there somewhere where they--Ensley or somewhere, you know,
then they'd give you a little something. So, it was bad when you got sick
and couldn't work no longer.

JERRY TAPLEY: I can--even though the miners were in the mines most of the
time, I can sense in talking to you a close family life here. I think
that's great. I think that's probably one of the things that holds the
community like it is today, maybe is the family life.

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Yes.

JERRY TAPLEY: Well, was it--how was it for the children, you think, say, for
their father, you know, not to be here except maybe at night or early morning
and mostly in the mine all day?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Well, the mother had to kind of manage, you know, and the
school teacher--well, the school teacher. If anybody did something at home
and the children would tell the teacher Monday, she would whip them for what
they did at home. The company was kind of a, I say absolute monarchy. They
had a sheriff, a couple of them, you know, the company did. They'd come
to your house if anything was wrong with it, whip you there and all that.

JERRY TAPLEY: Oh. My.

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: I never did have any--I have one son, but I never did have
any trouble at that time because I always tried to teach my son to do the right
thing, and then he wouldn't have to be involved in anything. So, when it
came to the part to where the coal line man be called into the sheriff, you
know, and they had come around, and then our people depended on them, you know,
if anything happened they'd go and tell him, "so-and-so did
so-and-so!" and he'd come and ask you about it, and if you attempted
to say anything he'd whip you. It was terrible.

JERRY TAPLEY: Whip anybody, you know?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: He'd whip grown folks, too. I've known him to whip
a lot of grown folks.

JERRY TAPLEY: What would happen if he came in and somebody bucked on him and
tried to get him before he got them? What would be the punishment after an
ordeal like that?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Well, he'd just kill you right then. But, one time a boy
went up in the loft and when the police came, Mr. Helton from the company, to
look for him, he couldn't find him, so he climbed up in the loft, you know,
to try to see was he hid and the boy got his gun and shot him and went on across
the railroad--went on across the railroad and we haven't seen him since.

JERRY TAPLEY: My.

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: We're not sure whether somebody found him and killed him
or whether he got away. We've not seen him since.

JERRY TAPLEY: Was there a lot of injuries in mine work?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Oh, it was terrible, we'd just be listening all the time
for somebody got hurt.

JERRY TAPLEY: Oh.

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Or killed. And the mines had explosions often then and people
get hurt and a lot of them killed in the mines.

JERRY TAPLEY: How far away from here are the mines?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Well, the mines, let's see now... this is sixth,
fifth, fourth, third, first, probably eight blocks.

JERRY TAPLEY: Eight blocks? You mentioned a cemetery over there a while ago.
I'd be interested in looking--just going through there.

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Well, you couldn't tell anything about it now. It's
just, you could see holes likes about that deep in the ground (motioning
toward a coffee table) and that'll tell you that a grave has been there.

JERRY TAPLEY: My goodness. This is back on another subject--back in the
schools. Some were telling about something, I think it was the toothbrush drill
or something like that, where they'd get the children out and line them up
and they'd have a cup and a toothbrush, and you know anything about that?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: No, I wasn't working then. I wasn't there at the
school, then. But, that was in the old building, And that's past my part, I
was, my son is 46, so from the time he started along we had black teachers and,
so, but the beginning, Mary Nation was one and she always got the superintendent
and they told her what to do and--she still lives in Smithfield over here.
So, she comes hard and she would boss, actually she would make them stay clean
and the company would give them toothbrushes and things, but I wasn't there
to see how that was. So, at school, Mary Nation would manage that, and I
didn't see it, but I heard tell of just how strict she was, and she got
orders from the superintendent of the mines what to do and she carried it out.

JERRY TAPLEY: What was the commissary like? I can picture--I went over there
while ago to the store that's there now and got me some milk to drink but I
was looking at it trying to imagine what it was like back when the mines were open.

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Well, now you see the people have living quarters back there.
Now it doesn't look like the same place. But, at the time that we used it
for a commissary all back in there was store you see and upstairs was store. So,
they had, oh, they had everything you needed. And they worked some black people
like back in there helping with the stock and stuff and they worked two or three
and they had trucks to carry orders out. They had a nice market. The little
market now is so small, but it is fine and that's about all one can do now.
But, at that time they had a nice, big market and you could just go buy fine
chickens, and buy a whole lamb, you could just buy, buy with the company credit.
So, you never had any real money and that kept you here all the time. You
couldn't spend that any other place. So, here you are. It was kind of like
Jim Jones cult family.

JERRY TAPLEY: I'm from the country myself. I just--in the idea of the
country store, there's still some around where I live, you know, the
little country store there is kind of the place where the community kind of
meets. Was it kind of like that at the commissary?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: That's right. The only place the men had to do was to
sit on--did you see that long concrete step, we'd be just, they'd
be sitting there and some of them would be sitting on the cars and they'd
go there and just sit all day. If they had a little more clacker they'd go
and get some sardines and crackers and sit some more. And that's the way
they did.

JERRY TAPLEY: Was the post office there too, then?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: No, at that time, at that time a man brought the mail in and
he stopped on 4th Street and that's right down in the middle of there. Then
he gave out all the black people's mail. Call your name--we'd meet
like a great camp meeting. We'd all be standing out there waiting on him.
And he'd drive up and they'd call your name, and everybody would meet
him and get your mail. So, then he would go on to the white section and give
them out their mail.

JERRY TAPLEY: What happened at the commissary--what happened when a family
couldn't pay their bill? Or just got kinda... Got too much on them and
couldn't pay it?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Well, they let people have produce who were working. And if
you worked today you could get as much as you made.

JERRY TAPLEY: I see.

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: You couldn't... They didn't let you...

JERRY TAPLEY: You couldn't run the bill up?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: You couldn't run it far over unless you bought a little
furniture and they kind of had that furniture rationed. You could get a bedroom
suite, then after you paid for that you could get a table and some chairs.

JERRY TAPLEY: Oh.

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: and after you paid for that you could get an icebox and buy
you some ice. They had an ice house right over there in that fenced in part from
the store, Well, the ice house was right there, and you could get you some ice
to put in the icebox.

JERRY TAPLEY: Oh.

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: They wouldn't let you get far in...you had to live...

JERRY TAPLEY: Within your means?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: That's right.

JERRY TAPLEY: I'm gonna get back to a subject I'm kind of partial to,
and that's church life. I'm in the ministry myself.

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: That's wonderful.

JERRY TAPLEY: And I, well, during the time the mines were open, and the area was
really booming here--of course, it is now, too, but, I think it was real
close and the people were really working hard to get what they had in the mines.
What was it like, say, when they had revival, and had a...

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Oh, it was glorious! It was. Really glorious! We would always
try to get another preacher to come and preach when we had revival and we would
just have a shouting good tome. Everybody would be happy, and we used the old
theatre church and spiritually, I think that the church was more meaningfully
for God when we were in the old church. Since we got a new church, it is very
modern, and we got two sets of mics and that's artificial, and we have
fancy songs to sing--that's modern, and we get out in a hurry early and
that's modern. We used to be in church all day (laughs). Singing, prays,
and just slapping your hands (claps her hands). Old time songs, and it just
didn't make any difference. So, the spiritual part was much more meaningful
in those days. I don't know if you can modernize God or not. But, I do know
if there's good coming out of it now it's modern good.

JERRY TAPLEY: During that time, the preacher, the pastors, did they work in the
mines, too? How were they supported, or...

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: They worked in the mines, too. Until late years. They worked
and then they preached on Sunday and you'd give them a quarter, dime, and
nickel, a clacker, a hen, a piece of ham, or anything you could scrape up to
give him.

JERRY TAPLEY: Oh bless. That's good. So he was just a part of the
community--one of the miners as the others were.

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: That's right.

JERRY TAPLEY: Is the old theatre church been torn down since?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Yes, it's torn down and a Methodist church up there for
the blacks. And the old school is torn down and the Baptist church for the
blacks. This one on the hill was the junior high school that carried to the
ninth grade, and then it had upstairs for a clubhouse, like that you
could...dance and have fun up there you know and had an old
piano--somebody could always come--somebody--didn't have to learn
music in those days, they could just play. And so, they would have for the young
people, but I never did go up there like that. And now since they was changed
over to the community center, we're trying to get enough money to put with
some federal money to get a new building there for the community center. Got a
great big ball place up there--it's nice. Got some swings and things
that they gave us.

JERRY TAPLEY: I drove past there.

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Got a little place to cook and got a fridge there and things.
They eat summer lunches there.

JERRY TAPLEY: You mentioned young people just then. What did the young people do
mainly for entertainment, say on weekends and all or when they got together
after school and everything. Say teenagers, what was the main thing they did?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Well, they just played ball and--well, they went down to
this cooking place in the afternoon after school too. That I told you, the
teacher for the cooking was sent from someplace else. She was a cook actually,
and she taught sewing and cooking and so forth and was paid by the company. So,
we got a good bit of intelligence out of that. But, actually children
didn't have too much that they played--just played ball and, you know,
just played together. And they were all--they knew they didn't have
anywhere else to go, so they all were satisfied to just around about. Finally,
though after our old theatre closed, they would get together in gangs and go to
Ensley and to Fairfield, you could go for a dime. So, we'd take some of our
money like that and swap it to somebody who'd come in. You remember the
Belted and Company in Ensley was someone, who was, was, in those days. One of
them's dead and the other one's down now, and company's closed.
But Belted and Company operated about 65 years, so they would come down to
company and get all the clacker they could get you know, and spend it back at
the company store and take the things, so see--they'd take 25% out and
they'd take the price of the can at the store and they'd sell it back
to us for some more clacker and you know, they knew how to swap that around. So,
we could swap the clacker for some cash by taking a deduction and that would
give us a little money to go to the theatres. And they would walk to Ensley and
walk to Fairfield.

JERRY TAPLEY: You get a pretty good view of the schools today from your work and
everything. Comparing a little bit how did, in discipline in the schools, how
would you say the difference is between the old TCI schools here and the schools today?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Well, actually, I think since they changed over to this new
system of discipline that the children are getting more out of hand. Yet, I
think some of that old was a little too cruel. But, I think they should have
kept part of it. They should have weeded out the part that was very, very cruel
and all, well certainly leave that off, but I think that the teachers don't
have enough authority and it prevents the children from learning like they
should. But sometimes they just won't do it because they feel like that you
can't do anything else about it anyway if you don't do it and the
blame will be on the teacher, that you're not a good teacher. But the
teacher is trying--they're trying very hard and we've got some
real, real good teachers. I understand that they want to test the teachers and
so forth, I don't think that's necessary, I think that they have
already tested this discipline system and seen that it is--it's not very
workable. They need to lean a little bit more toward the teachers a little more
and they could do more. I, myself, know all the children. There is about 950 in
the school where I work, and they are elementary. I know all the children, I
knew all their parents. And I'm the only black worker who is not a
professional. But, the parents of those children they knew when I was only
working in the lunchroom there, you know, but, they thought it was great to have
me there and they liked my cooking and so forth. But, they're grown up now
and they still think, "Yes, but Christine this and Christine that."€ So
that is home teaching to the children, so I don't have any trouble. But,
meanwhile, they are not quite as lenient with the teachers as they should be, I
can take one and tell him, "now listen, you do this, and you do that
because I'll tell Mrs. Kizzire tomorrow just what you did, and you know
what she'll give you."€ I won't have a bit more trouble. The
teachers have--here comes the mama, "but she's got bad nerves and
she this, that, and the other, and..." running the school system they
don't want them chastised, "They said you had them in the corner and
they said so-and-so and..." It's hard--it's just so hard
that the teachers' nerves are just about as bad as the children.

JERRY TAPLEY: What would have happened in Docena in the coal mining--the days
when the mines were open, if the TCI school had a parent came in and try that?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: If a mom came in and tried that, the teacher would tell her,
"now I whipped her, and I did so-and-so and I did so-and-so, so you just go
back home, or I'll call Mr. Grabem or Mr. Mizzell." If they
didn't go-- Because. They're afraid you'll call the man and
the superintendent would send him up there and he'd want to know
what's wrong. "What wrong? You don't want your children to do
right? Get your wagon ready, pack up, be ready to go to the gate."€
They'd move you out. So, they was afraid to do too much.

JERRY TAPLEY: I don't blame them. I think that may be what we need now.

CHRISTINE COCHRANZ: Well, not all of it.

JERRY TAPLEY: Not all together. We would learn from it, though.

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: You certainly would, yeah.

JERRY TAPLEY: You were talking about church a while ago and you were talking
discipline. Back where I'm from and everything back a few years ago if
somebody was caught doing something wrong, the church would turn them out.

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Yeah!

JERRY TAPLEY: Now, back when the mines were open here and everything was
that--did that happen some?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Yes, back in the old days if you lived in the house with a
man and wasn't married to him they'd turn you out of the church.
You'd have to beg pardon and come back, you know, and straighten it up.
But, now days you can get by with most anything.

JERRY TAPLEY: How did they go about turning someone out of the church? How did they...

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Well, they'd send somebody--they called themselves
sending a committee. They'd send somebody to your house to tell you that.
They'd send somebody. To your house to tell you that "we're gonna
have a conference Friday night. We learned that you and sister-so-and-so had a
disagreement and you all got to come to conference." So, they could go to
conference, the two people could, and beg pardon, you know, and be sorry for the
sin the committed and so forth. And they would take them back as a full-fledged
member. But, sometimes one would say, "I'd rather they turn me out. I
won't go. I won't."€ So they'd just turn them out.

JERRY TAPLEY: That's interesting. They kind of kept the family straight a
little bit, wouldn't they? Oh wow that's good. What kind of role did
the women have in the church? Say, in the mining days.

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Well, in those days we didn't have too much, we were
there only mostly to sing and try to read a little scriptures in Sunday school.
We had a few Sunday school teachers--most of the men carried on the church in
those days, but on over the men didn't appreciate the blessings that the
Lord had given them and so they strayed away from the church. Now we don't
have enough men. So, the ladies are doing things right now. The ladies are just
doing stewardship and do their own projects to raise money. Whatever the pastor
needs they put on something to raise money. When we got ready for our church we
just all worked--worked hard--it took us two years to pay, we had to work
hard that two years and just dumped and dumped and we paid $165,000 in two years.

JERRY TAPLEY: Oh that's great. Wow that's great.

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: And so, then after that we paid for the grounds up there for
$35,000 and so we paid for that in about one year. So, we women have to do, we
don't have no men. 
JERRY TAPLEY: When the mines were open the country went
through at least two wars. What happened say when a man was called to war? You
know from the community, from the area--a miner. When he got back would he
still have a job?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Yes, when he got back he had his job back.

JERRY TAPLEY: Well, I think that's good. Did a lot have to go?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Yes, they went, most of them, and several got killed and some
got wounded and came back and some died from the wounds after return and some of
living now doing from the second war. Most of the old first war people are dead.
I only know one, Deacon Hicks, he's a World War I. I didn't ask him
anything because he's been in the hospital and all and is kind of senile.
So, I didn't worry him. But I know him very well and we exchange Christmas
gifts and so forth. But I didn't ask him anything on account of he's down.

JERRY TAPLEY That brings me to a good question I hadn't ever thought about.
What was Christmas like in the days when the mines were open and everything?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: In the days when the mines were open, when it came Christmas,
the company got wagons, bicycles, dolls, and toy and plenty of apples and
oranges by the crate and all those--you'd have to have a good work
record, pretty good help and so they felt like you was gonna work it on out. So
you could get most anything that--on credit. And it just was maybe next
Christmas before you'd start over again--you hadn't seen any money.
'Cause we'd already gotten it before you worked.

JERRY TAPLEY: When, you know, you mentioned while ago when a man retired
that--when he was disabled that he was pretty much down and out. What
happened say when he was called off to war and had to leave his family here, could they
still live here or...

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Well, yes. They stayed here and they would soon be getting a
little check or something, The house rent wasn't but about $3 or $4 a
month. And you didn't have to pay lights and water and they let you pick up
some coal and keep warm, so you didn't have to do anything but eat and pay
$4 a month. So, you could still stay in the house until he came back.

T: Did TCI pretty well keep up the houses?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Yes, yes, they kept the houses up...real well. Every five
years they would paint. They were all, most of them were small houses, but they
were well kept.

JERRY TAPLEY: They'd have to be built real good, they're looking find
and holding just real...

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Right, I bought one of the old offices and built on--and
built that little porch off some the company offices down there when they pulled
out and then I--my husband was living then, so he and I tore the building
down, got it all ready, pulled the nails and stacked it up. And then we hired a
fellow with a truck to haul it up here. We hired a man to make the rooms and
paid him. Brick it up around the bottom. But, we kept the tin roof.

JERRY TAPLEY: How long ago was it when you did the work on your house?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: Well, about 18 years. Something like 18 years.

JERRY TAPLEY: When TCI owned the village here, was it mainly dirt roads through
here? Or were they paved?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: (long pause) The Galbreath Company, I believe, paved it.

JERRY TAPLEY: When they bought it..

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: (long pause) Well, let's see. Well it seems like we had
some little narrow black-top or something before the company kind of-- But
the company did all this nice wide paving. I know Galbreath did that in 1951 or
2, whatever years it was.

JERRY TAPLEY: What would--what would the company do around Christmas and
everything? Like, how much time would the men get off for Christmas? Would they
get any extra pay or anything? Say after unionization?

CHRISTINE COCHRAN: You couldn't be off no day but Christmas day and New
Year's Day. But, you needed to work. Back in those days you worked six
days, so you worked every day. On Sunday you would be off. But if Christmas came
on Monday, you would be off Christmas Day. If New Years came on you were off New
Years. But you were not off at that time you were not off any other holidays,
but when the organized labor came, you got other holidays, so that moved it up a
little nicer.

JERRY TAPLEY: Well, Mrs. Cochran, I appreciate you helping me out with
this--I have just been fascinated by the whole interview.

Audio Information
Attribute	Value
Interviewee	Christine Cochran
Repository	Samford University Oral History Collection
Accession	SUHist/TCI/001