Beeson Podcast, Episode #
Hilah Grace Allman
Date

>>Announcer: 

Welcome to the Beeson podcast, coming to you from Beeson Divinity School on the campus of Samford University. Now your host, Doug Sweeney. 


>>Doug Sweeney:

Welcome to the Beeson podcast. I'm your host, Doug Sweeney, and I'm joined today by Hilah Grace Allman, one of Beeson podcast. I'm your host Doug Sweeney and I'm joined today by Hilah Grace Allman, one of Beeson's brightest Master of Arts in Christian Counseling students. I'm looking forward to introducing her to our podcast audience and asking her all about Beeson and her work in our counseling program. So thank you my friend for being with us. 
>>Allman:
Thank you for having me. 
>>Sweeney:
It's great to have you. All right, let's introduce you to everybody first. Just tell us a little bit about what your childhood was like, how you came to faith in Christ, and then maybe a little bit later, how you decided that seminary was an option for you.
>>Allman:
Yeah, it's a lot of good questions. I grew up in the church. I had faithful parents who brought me and my brother to church on Sundays and Wednesdays. This is very Baptist of me, but I was a VBS kid, Vacation Bible School. So I really don't remember a time where I wasn't surrounded by a faith community in some aspect. And I didn't realize, I think, until later how valuable that was. But the Lord has used so many people in my life to minister to me and really to help me draw closer to him. And that, I think, really leads into how I felt called to ministry. Really grew in my faith I feel like those very pivotal years in middle high school, those were really big years for me in regards to just being open to community and being open to being God's kid.
And so I guess jumping forward to college, I did my undergrad at the University of Alabama and decided I wanted to go into special education. And so I became a special education teacher.
>>Sweeney:
All right, so why did you decide that? How did that go for you?
>>Allman:
It was really just a process of me loving working with students. Working with students at church, but also in the school system, I ended up shadowing for some teachers when I was in high school during my breaks and that helped me, I guess, discern what my next step might look like.
>>Sweeney:
And you decided you work with special needs kids or that was it was that was your major in undergrad? 
>>Allman:
My undergrad was actually, it was dual, so I did both special ed and gen ed. 
>>Sweeney:
How did you figure out the Lord was leading you into special ed?
>>Allman:
I think I was surrounded by a lot of students in the one class that I shadowed in that had ADHD and autism and realized that they were like my favorite students to be around. I loved their personalities and just their perspective that they brought into small group discussion and things like that. And just realized I wanted to be close to those kids that sometimes were the ones that didn't receive the most love and support. And wanted to minister to them in a special way because they were so special to me.
>>Sweeney:
That's already a very special form of ministry but that didn't get you all the way to seminary. So, you're doing that for a while. I asked you before we started recording I think you said four years you were doing that.
>>Allman:
Yes sir.
>>Sweeney:
So when was it in the midst of all that ministry as a teacher that you thought maybe seminary was going to enhance the kind of ministry the Lord was giving you to do? 
>>Allman:
That's a very good question. It was a hard, tough journey because I started teaching ... my very first year was COVID. So it was a rough year to start out. Just everything that I'd learned in my undergrad program was kind of flipped on its head. Now I'm having to learn how to teach digitally and virtually to my students with learning disabilities. I was surrounded by a great team of teachers who were, I mean, they were like mentors to me. 
So I was not without the support in any way, but it really just, it made the job itself challenging and it was something I had to fight to continue to work toward and grow in. But I think it was around my third year, I experienced some loss in a variety of ways. Some family loss, struggled with some health, some loss through health. And then that kind of spiraled into, like, some emotional struggles that I had and basically kind of started this journey of, what does it look like to be faithful to the Lord in this season right now? While I'm being a teacher and I'm trying to pour my heart out to these students, what does it look like to be faithful to the Lord and serve him while I also feel like I don't have much to give? 
And so I guess wrestling with those questions left me on this journey of finding the right books and talking to the right people. And my pastor and his wife were actually very, very helpful in that journey of leading me in a direction into what looked like me going to see a counselor and not feeling shame about that, but realizing like, you know, none of us need less than Jesus, but some of us need these other resources like medication and counseling and just other interventions. 
And it helped me look at my students in a different light. I think it gave me, which I think the Lord uses all of our experiences, but I think that this level of suffering that I had gave me a lot of patience with my students that I don't think I had before. And allowed me to sit with them when they were coming in in the morning, something had happened, they had spiraled, one of them was upset, they would come to my room, we'd have someone on one time, and I could actually look at them and say, you know what, there's something underlying here. Like this isn't you. This is, there's something deeper.
And so it kind of, my own journey of learning what healing looks like helped me in looking at my students differently and wanting to find strategies that were helpful for them. And I guess in the mental health world.
>>Sweeney:
Yeah, well that's good. You remind me, Martin Luther used to talk about how suffering makes the theologian. He's not the only one who said things like that, lots of people have said that but that rings so true in my experience and it sounds like maybe you didn't think of yourself as a theologian at that time but it sure did deepen, it seems like, your theological reflection, your theological interests.
>>Allman:
Definitely, and I think the academic side of me wanted to figure it all out and have a huge explanation as to why all this was going on, but really deep down it was just this level of learning to trust and rest, even when my outcome was not what I expected.
So I had a friend that started Beeson. This was, I guess, my fourth year of teaching. They went to church with me and they would come from class to our college ministry and they would talk about Beeson. And I thought, oh, man, that sounds so great. And I think I was a little jealous. Didn't realize that at the time because I never thought seminary was on the cards. I mean, I had a full-time job. I felt very certain of where I was and felt that that was where the Lord had called me. But as I began talking to that friend more, I started to wonder if maybe I could ever consider like maybe a part-time path of looking at just taking some theology classes because so much of my work that I was doing on my own was working through some of those like theological questions of like suffering and things like that. And I was like, man, it would be really nice to have someone lead in that direction. And that's when I found out about the counseling program. 
That same friend had told me, “Hey Beeson's starting a counseling program.” I was like no way. So I went on the website and looked at the course catalog and just all the different classes that would be required for the program and every single one of them sounded interesting to me. And I was like okay that's not normal. Who wants to go back to school, right? So I was like yeah that I mean those sound great maybe I could try and go to one or two and play this part-time game.
>>Sweeney:
That's what you did at the beginning. You kind of tested the waters a little bit.
>>Allman:
Actually crazy enough that enough, that was what I think I wanted to do because it was safe. But I talked to my counselor, because I was like, well, I mean, I could take these classes, but it would be nice to know what he thinks. I mean, he's been doing this day in, day out. He is a biblical counselor. And I'd been seeing him for a while and so I trusted his judgment. And what I really wanted I think was for him to say, oh no, you don't need to do that. But I walked in, told him what I was thinking and about Beeson and the counseling program, showed him the course catalog and he was like, I think you should do it. And I was like, oh man.
>>Sweeney:
So at that point in your life, were you already thinking maybe God wants me to be a counselor?
>>Allman:
I think part of me was wrestling with that but I was not ready to accept it. I was very afraid. I'm a very structured person. I have my plans and I follow through with my plans. And so if it wasn't me teaching full term until retirement, then it felt like shaky ground. And I didn't like that.
But yeah, after my counselor told me that he was like, I think you should do it, I was like, oh man, that, okay. That's a little bit of confirmation that I didn't want. So I continued to pursue it. This was now the summer, and so I was looking at starting my fifth year teaching, and went to an interview with Dr. Bals and Emily Knight. 
>>Sweeney:
Yeah, and Dr. Bals, for those who don't already know, directs our counseling program and is a phenomenal teacher of counseling.
>>Allman:
He is, and I walked in, really was hoping for the Lord to just provide me, like, some confirmation. Is this the right thing or is this maybe something I need to wait, like, put pause on, maybe do a couple of classes here and there just to help with my own walk and journey and what it looks like to trust the Lord in this season for me. And I met with them and as soon as I left, I was like, if I get accepted, I'm going to do this thing. I'm just going to go all in.
>>Sweeney:
What did he say at the meeting that got you over the hump?
>>Allman:
I think it was the way he was just present and just listened. And I was still wrestling with wanting to be a teacher, but not wanting to give that up. And he was able to see past a lot of, I guess, the closed-offness I had towards jumping into something like this. And it gave me a lot of comfort. I was like if he is going to be teaching these classes I would love to learn from him what it looks like just to be present with someone and to help them work through these questions they have. So yeah, the rest is history.
>>Sweeney:
I'm glad God brought you here. Let’s talk a little bit ... I’m thinking now of people who are going through similar thought processes themselves, wondering, is counseling something maybe God has for me? Can you describe, it's going to be hard, but can you describe what your experience in the program has been like for people?
>>Allman:
Oh man, I mean, I think for me, so much of it has been like a healing for me, just because I was walking in with a lot of questions and walking in trying to wrestle with what it looks like to struggle with mental health in some areas, like even personally and devotionally, like what that looks like for me. 
And so walking in, learning about some of these things was like a balm to my soul. And the Lord, I mean, the Lord used all of it. My counseling classes, even the MDiv courses, the theology, the history and doctrine, just made it all come alive. 
I remember my very first class at Beeson was a New Testament theology class. And I would leave that class, with tears in my eyes every single Wednesday and Friday, and just sitting there wondering, how is it that I've heard the best sermon of my life after every single class? But the Lord just used that to minister to me in a very deep way, and just not thinking I was ever really like an academic person knowing that I could walk into this and have this experience of learning more and just seeking his face through the studies while also the devotional side was such a gift to me.
>>Sweeney:
Well that sounds marvelous. So far, your description is the kind I love. It's mostly about how the program has helped you spiritually, emotionally, devotionally and so on. At the same time is it helping you think about what God has next for you? Are you thinking of yourself a little bit more as a counselor now or is that not what God's doing in your life through the program?
>>Allman:
Definitely ... I think walking through the program and just taking it a step at a time has given me the confidence I need to actually believe that I could do counseling. And one of the things that Dr. Bals said that gave me a lot of comfort at the beginning was that sometimes we walk into ministry or, you know, a class or anything really, and we think that we've got to learn how to figure it all out. And like, that's our goal, for that class is to figure it all out. But he was basically saying, walking into some of these classes, you're going to learn how you don't have it all figured out and how that's okay, and how the Lord's going to meet you there. In your weakness, he's going to come through. 
And so, I guess, step by step, me coming to those realizations of, it's not necessarily me grieving and leaving teaching and then stepping into this role as counselor, but it's like just me being his kid all the way through. And wherever he has me is where he's gonna use me. I think I've just come up to a lot of peace with that. 
>>Sweeney:
I hesitate to ask this because I don't know if it's too early to ask you this question but I'll ask it anyway. As you look back on your time as a teacher in relation to what God's been doing in your life recently at Beeson in the counseling program, can you yet see the ways in which in God's providence and God's kindness some of the things he was doing in your life when you were working full time as a teacher are being used as sort of contributions to your ongoing spiritual formation here in seminary. Is there a relationship you can talk about yet between your teaching and your seminary life?
>>Allman:
I think in a lot of ways I'm still processing that and I think I'll continue to but think I do see where the Lord has given me these experiences of being someone working full-time with one-on-one with people, with people that are valued and beloved. And having those experiences where I'm able to minister to them in a real way, using those in my counseling classes where I'm having to think sometimes of scenarios of like, where could this be applicable? Like, where could I be ... I guess for an example, in our counseling classes, we work on skills like reflecting content and reflecting feeling and clarifying. In what ways, when I'm sitting across from someone, can I use those skills for the glory of God to help them be seen and heard and feel loved?
And I think that there's ways in which I could have definitely done that better when I was a teacher that I just didn't know, didn't know the skills. But there's also moments where I've been able to look back and see the Lord work even through my, I guess, ignorance of those skills of like how sometimes just being present with someone and listening when they're crying is all that they need in that moment.
And so just being able to look back at the lives of my students and ministering to them and trying to teach them math and reading but also trying to pay attention to their hearts. It's just been a beautiful process and something that I probably do need to reflect on and process some more but that’s a great question.
>>Sweeney:
For years to come. Yeah. Okay so for people who are listening to us now and every once in a while they've wondered is seminary something that's maybe for me or for people listening to us now who know folks who they would like to encourage to go to divinity school or go to seminary, what would you say about Beeson and your Beeson experience that you'd like to put on their minds as they think about this? 
And then you know just a little part two, any advice for people who are just a few years behind you in the process but maybe following in your footsteps, how would you advise them about getting ready for the possibility of walking through seminary with the Lord?
>>Allman:
I mean, for me, I think the first step in my process was talking to people about it, talking to people that know me well, people in and out of ministry, hearing their experiences with whatever they've gone through, and just asking them, like, do you think this is something that you could see me doing? Because I feel like I used and I valued so much of the people in my life that knew me well. I wanted their input and I wanted to know what they thought about me taking this leap of faith. Because for me, it was very, very, you know, structured. This was a big leap for me. And for some people, that might not be the case. They may be ready, like, all in. But for me, it was definitely a process. 
And so I think that speaking to the people around you that know you, that you trust, and that you have that relationship, I think, is a good first step. But also, I think the more that we lean into the gospel, the more creative we are. And I think at least that's how it's been for me in this process was the excitement I felt about classes came from that ability to hope about a future, a possibility somewhere else. And so I think that comes from just being with the Lord and letting him mold you, and also just being his child and knowing that he's going to take care of you. So I think leaning into that creativity is okay. It's not a bad thing. So I would also encourage people to think about, if I'm looking at myself a year from now, would this be a healthy place for me to be in?
>>Sweeney:
I love that, the more we lean into the gospel, the more creative we are. I'm not sure I've heard somebody say that before, but I think you're exactly right.
>>Allman:
I'm sure it's in one of the books I've read this past week, because I'm sure it's just rolling through my brain.
>>Sweeney:
Yeah, so talk for just one more minute about that, I like that so much and I want us to think about that just a little bit. So it sounds like what you've said so far is that as God enabled you to lean more fully into the gospel he just kind of freed you up from maybe a lot of cautiousness that you had about following him in the seminary to begin with. Are there other ways in which you feel like it's making you more creative and responsive to the things that he puts before you day by day?
>>Allman:
I mean, I feel like for me that might be hard to answer just because when I was ... I was going through a very difficult season before I came into Beeson. And so, Beeson has been a type of healing journey for me. So, I don't know how much of that was in the Lord healing me and opening me up to his goodness in a new way, if that was me flourishing in the ways he wanted me to. I don't know how much of that was in the healing process, or, which I mean, I guess that kind of answers the question in its own way.
>>Sweeney:
Yeah, it does. I think about it in relation to my own experience over the years. The more I've lived into the gospel, the more God has used the gospel to kind of free me up from excessive concern about myself or manufacturing my own future, those sorts of things, the more freed up I've become really to follow him creatively, the more I trust in him and his guidance of my life, the less I'm trying to kind of force the issue all the time and manufacture my own future day to day. And I think that does make you more creative and more responsive just to people God brings your way in the moment.
>>Allman:
Yeah I mean what is it that Bonhoeffer says, I'm probably going to mess it up, but we have to go where faith is possible and that's uncertainty and I feel like that jumping into a new territory, a new place, a new job, whatever that may be for anybody, is in a way stepping into that uncertainty and having, getting to the point where it's only him that can work. Like, I can't do anything in my own strength. He's going to make the path for me.
>>Sweeney:
Wow, that's great. Okay, last question. A lot of our listeners like to pray for Beeson and pray for Beeson students. How can our listeners be praying for Hilah Grace in days ahead?
>>Allman:
Well, I'm almost done with the counseling program and I'm very sad about it. I'll be done in August. I mean, there's a lot of ways to rejoice, but I think there's like some grieving that goes on with that too of like knowing that this time is coming to an end and so I just want to I want to finish well and I also am you know discerning like what next steps look like for me so I guess both of those things would be things I would love prayer for. 
>>Sweeney:
Great. All right listeners this has been Hilah Grace Allman. She's a Master of Arts in Christian Counseling student at Beeson Divinity School. Thank you very much, Hilah Grace, for being with us today. Listeners, please pray for her, that she'll follow the Lord faithfully and creatively into the future. Bear in mind that we're always praying for you and we're grateful for you. We love you and we say goodbye for now.

>>Mark Gignilliat:

You’ve been listening to the Beeson podcast; coming to you from the campus of Samford University. Our theme music is by Advent Birmingham. Our announcer is Mark Gignilliat. Our engineer is Rob Willis. Our Producer is Neal Embry. And our show host is Doug Sweeney. For more episodes and to subscribe, visit www.BeesonDivinity.com/podcast. You can also find the Beeson Podcast on iTunes, YouTube, and Spotify.